This post nails it about left wing voters on Mumsnet over the last two days

[ProudAmberTurtle]

It's by an ex-academic on X, about posts on Reddit over the last 48 hours but is equally applicable to Mumsnet, where I can seeing posts stating things like:

"How stupid are Reform voters? Don't they realise they'll get fewer benefits?!"

The irony is of course that it's those posters who need to be educated, not the working class voters they mock because they think they're thick.

Here you go:

Reading through Reddit threads in which leftists/progressives express their bewilderment/confusion/fury at working class English voters for casting their lot in with Reform, one of the things I'm starting to understand is this:

They simply do not understand how a government could help working-class people in any other way besides giving them benefits, handouts, and other free things.

Their entire mental architecture is premised upon the premises that

1. Working class people are poor
2. The only way for them to not be poor is for the state to give them free stuff
3. So left-wing parties need to promise them lots of free stuff

Then, when these working-class voters instead vote for right-of-centre parties who instead promise an economy in which they can build a career, start their own business, make a financial success of themselves and start a family, they're confused.

Because, again, in their mental architecture, what the working class are supposed to want is free benefits from the state.

But what they actually want is a fair shake at making their own way in the world, making money, getting on in life.

And the left simply doesn't understand that what these voters want from the state is an economy in which they can actually do this.

x.com/i/status/2053073719086469193

The right are not a monolith and all the insults as per your pp is nonsense really.

I have just read about 10 posts where people who appear to use "left: as a slur can't or won't explain what the far left is.

And I am wondering who are these "elite" that they talk about. I am sort of scared to ask.

Are you?

Why’s that then

I did mention that in my post. Label political opponents and attack them. It's the same playbook.

And as I said up thread, it's a catch 22. Because no matter what one says, it is used as evidence that one is speaking down to them, insulting them.

Am I what ?

‘Sort of scared to ask’ - your post

‘Label political opponents and attack them’

Actually forget last question, this statement is more interesting.

Do you think the left don’t do this?

That doesn't make me loyal as you put it.

Like me, you are a floating voter then? And liking Kemi does surely not make you loyal to her?

I am not sure how to answer. Because I don't know who you mean by left. I just posted about that. A full page of "who are the left" and no answer.

To be clear about me, and at the risk of being accused of "making this about me", I am firmly on the left. Politically and socially.

Politically, I am about half way between far left and centrist. I am not a communist, nor a full socialist. I prefer the mixed economy model, Along the lines of utilities and public transport being state owned, and most other stuff free enterprise.

Socially, I am to the far left. Pro democracy, pro safety net, pro peoples rights, self determination, pro free speech etc.

So "‘Label political opponents and attack them’: Do you think the left don’t do this?"

UK politics? Hmmm. Sure. if the label fits and is evidenced. A racist is a racist. And should be politically attacked for it.

But in general political discourse no. Because it is political discourse. A Thatcherite and a Corbynite (yes, both labels) for example, can have a policy discussion about politics without just attacking their opponent as "speaking down to them". They can talk policy because they have policy.

"I am not sure how to answer"

At least you are trying, it does feel a bit one way.

@RedTagAlan Not going to go into much detail, this thread is not about the birth of the PRC.

You have put a few vague points of comparison that could apply to most politicians or leaders. They don't really bear a closer scrutiny. It's paper thin superficial, and very stretched. No wonder it took you a while to scrape sth together.

One tiny, minuscule detail to start with that some ppl may judge crucial when they have an ounce of common sense: Maoists led an armed insurrection, Nigel Farage respects the rule of democracy. If you can't appreciate the importance of this subtle difference, you don't really get politics. Or history. Or democracy. As many of your other posts suggest.

There is also comparing the late Qing dynasty to the UK today, not quite the same circumstances. And the GLP and CR happened long after Mao was in power, Farage has never been in power.

Also, Mao fought a guerrilla for 20+ years in the countryside, living in trenches and dressing like a peasant. I don't think this has been the Farage approach.

Cult of the personality is not the same as being extremely popular. People want to have a pint with Nigel, they don't see him (and are not made to) as god on earth.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

So, not really the same playbook at all or a valid comparison... but eh, not the first time you don't let facts get in the way of a grandiose hectoring online.

Also, is the Far East not treating you well that you spend so much time on here? Or it's too much for you take on, and you need to restore your ego through familiar environments and domineering behaviours? You wouldn t be the first.

Why? Because of the Kemi question? I’m happy to answer just doing stuff.

If you use labels and attack people then you on the left are doing what you said others do. Your label and attack is no more valid.

And who are you saying doesn’t have policy?

I never mentioned anything about the history of the PRC. I am talking about the cult of personality playbook, and how Mao used it in the cultural revolution that he created. There are lots of parallels between that and Farage . Same with Trumpism.

But you have deflected from the point's I made.

And no, it did not take me "so much time to scrape it together", because I am still waiting to find out what British Cultural things Brits can't do anymore.

What is it with all the ad homenims ?

Nigel Farage respects the rule of democracy

Does he?🤔

He doesn't respect the outcome of democracy, crying "foul!" when Reform loses. He refuses to condemn rioters if they are of a particular flavour. He doesn't adhere to Parliamentary rules. He doesn't bother to turn up to Parliament to represent his constituents, unless of course there is an opportunity for showboating and sowing division. And of course there is that shadowy £5m which he refuses to take questions about.

You fudge more than caramel.
But I was not expecting much better, I had taken the measure of you.
I was so sure you were talking out of your arse about your "same playbook" bs, I couldn't resist.

I always push back when a grandstanding man invalidates women's experience, plays deliberately obtuse to derail conversations, talks with authority of topics he knows nothing about, spends his time moving the goalposts, or play the WC card to justify his personal failings and ignorance.

I am still waiting for the answer to what British Cultural things can't British do any more.

Keep waiting, or go back upthread and read it.
Ciao.

Yeah. He was on the EU fisheries committee for yonks. He never turned up. And then he spent his time attacking EU fisheries policy. While it was his job to represent the UK on the committee that made the policy.

Then he done his thing on the Thames with the fishing boats during Brexit. Vote for me to save your fisheries. While not mentioning the fishers would lose their biggest market for their catch.

As Andrew Neil said to Ben Shapiro:

“Well thank you for your time and showing that anger isn’t part of political discourse.”

Although not really anger. But insults.

It is nice to get away from most of that on a female dominated forum. I admit I avoid a board as it just became too much.

It is indeed. I am not the girliest girl around but, please, give me a space away from these pontificating, mediocre males.

And I m not here anymore for the small man expat blues.
I lived in the "Far East" myself for a long time, I have seen plenty come and go. And I am a bit worried for the resident dude of this thread tbh. Not everyone can hack living abroad in a foreign culture, it can really make your MH spiral. Spending one's time on MN stubbornly pontificating is really not a good sign.

@EasternStandard , no nothing to do with you liking Kemi Badenoch. Although it didn't answer what you meant by 'loyal' Or far left.

So on a political thread about the "left" calling reform voters thick, and having stereotypes of what the working class are, I am directly challenged by a poster to state sex and location. If I dare. If I don't, I am a coward.

Me being a good faith poster reply. I have this thing about being honest. That is why my username is male.

And then I am attacked, stereotyped, and my posts dismissed as pontificating, dismissive, fake intelligence and I am insulted.

And this on a thread about the left insulting reform voters

I explained to another poster what the “far left” is to me - not that I have used the term as a slur.

You assume that if people don’t answer your questions it’s because they can’t, but maybe they just don’t want to get into a big debate with you knowing the way you go on with question after question.