How can people vote Green?

[RobinStrike]

The Greens are no longer the ecology party. They have been taken over by people who want to leave NATO, legalise drugs and don’t recognise women. I understand the attraction of a far left party but surely the original Greens don’t agree with all this.
Plus they expel people for refusing to recognise some members as fairies?
https://labourheartlands.com/the-green-partys-war-on-reality/

So you support legalisation of all drugs?

No. I support the approach outlined in the quote I posted. The impact on organised crime, trafficking and public health would be huge.

Zack P wants to legalise all drugs. He has been asked numerous times if he means decriminalise, but has never corrected the record. He just starts waffling about people having a good time.
Either you support ZP's position (legalise), or you don't.

There’s much more nuance than that.

@Shegotanology oh I see

Yes, there are some currencies that get flagged up for review on here, I think it's in case it's a promotion or a scam or something.

@TheNuthatch oh I've never heard him say that - that's interesting. I thought it was much more about supervision and welfare but I genuinely think he is underestimating - or possibly not considering - the long-term effects of that.

Full disclosure, I would've taken a more relaxed approach to drugs but after seeing the results on my US trips - pun not intended 😂😂 - I feel like it's a terrible idea.

I suppose if it happens, I might finally be able to get some diazepam again!

Interestingly the Iranian Revolution was by a coalition of leftists / communists and liberal students combined with Islamists. Once the revolution was successful, the Islamists rounded up the leftists and liberal students and either imprisoned or executed them.
This is terrifying.

He wants to control drugs and sell it through shops/prescriptions

literally what EVERY medical professional wants

harm reduction
lose the criminal element that fucks the world
provide rehab and fund the health service in this area

literally couldn’t be more sensible

I thought it was much more about supervision and welfare

It is.

@LocalHobo out of interest, did you know that or have you only recently found out?

@LaurieFairyCake have you factored in the effect of the appeal to those of us who don't currently use drugs? Again, not here for an argument, just curious.

I’m intrigued to see how Zac plays it and if he chooses to stand in the next GE. I have a vested interest as I live in the constituency that he’ll likely run in, IF he stands, so it’s just a matter of waiting and seeing.

That would mean legalisation. I don't doubt that there is a conversation to be had about decriminalisation (see Portugal), but thats not what this is. Do you really want young people to be able to access drugs in a shop, as long as there is a better system to treat them once they're addicted?

I think ZP is selling a dangerous, false vision of what legalisation would look like in his ideal world.
As Keir Starmer said, I don't want that for my dc when they reach 18.

Absolutely you could be talking about Reform here.

Neither the Greens or Reform have a credible economic policy or any policies to deal with increasing Government spending compared to tax revenues in.

Reform focus on immigration appeals to those voters who blame our economic and societal ills on immigration. Whereas the Greens focus on "taxing the rich " appeals to those voters who blame our economic and societal ills on the "rich".

Unfortunately politics is polarising towards these two extremes and away from Labour and the Tories in the centre.

I have deliberately left out the LibDems as they have no clarity on their policies, assuming they have any, other than Trump is a nasty person (really? Thanks for letting us know!)

An accurate simple and short summary

Just to be very clear- I am most definitely not suggesting that the same thing would happen here.

But what I am saying is that "Islamo leftism" is inherently unstable and that each side is using the other for their own benefit.

Once the "goal" has been achieved then they will split with the dominant or stronger side dropping and sidelining the other.

There is nothing positive about abstaining, non at all, its how the extremes get in.... just check out European history?

Its up to the voters to show their anger at the 2 main parties and in turn they need to step up or they will gone.

Polling that shows people are turning to Reform and the Greens, is what forces change, people staying at home lets them all off the hook.

As for Labour, a shocking dissapointment.

Thats not a very promising outlook for Reform is it?

Zia Yusef, a practice Muslim, is a leading member of Reform, people like Jenrick and Farage claim to be "Christian"

So i wonder who will survive the (your) predicted "blood" bath, should they ever gain power?

Because politics has been reduced to soundbite, quick win populism rather than an understanding of the reality of economics and society. People don’t look beyond the headline policies. If they did, they may raise an eyebrow. Same as for Reform - although they also scratch at deepseated tribalism aka racism. Any of these parties in actual government would struggle with the reality of managing an economy and complex society - as Reform and the Greens have done when they run councils.

I recently joined the Green Party after feeling politically homeless for years. I really like Zak Polanski from what I’ve seen of him, he appears to have integrity. I was so excited when Labour won the election but feel completely let down by Starmer and his party so where else can I go? If they take seats from Reform I’m all for it. But I will do more reading into the manifesto as I guess I did jump a bit quick.

There are very few constituencies with a young electorate - university cities and that's about it. We are an ageing country. I'm in deep blue home counties, where the Lib Dems reliably come in a close second to the Tories with occasional wins. Labour and Reform are nowhere. I suppose the Greens might have a chance in e.g. Guildford, but the students are vastly outnumbered by the kind of educated, comfortably off "centrist dad" voters that naturally flock to the Lib Dems and the less loony Tories (which is why Jeremy Hunt is still hanging on).

So I started my post stressing that I am absolutely not suggesting that what happened after the Iranian Revolution would happen in the UK - so other than to ridicule or diminish my comment without a real counter argument with evidence, I'm puzzled as to why you think that I am predicting "a bloodbath" if the Greens were to achieve power in the UK.

Instead I stated that the "Red-Green alliance" or "Islamo-leftism"—is unstable due to fundamental differences in social values, goals, and ideologies, despite their temporary convergence against common adversaries of capitalism, Western foreign policy or Israel.

The fundamental differences are that left favours individual liberties, LGBTQ+ rights, feminism, race and identity and secularism, whereas Islamists favour religious governance, traditional family structures, and submission to religious law.

By way of example of this "coalition" breaking down occurred in the City Council of Hamtramck, Michigan where an Islamo leftist victory elected a Muslim majority City Council and Mayor.

This then banned LGBTQ+ flags and any LGBTQ+ curriculum in schools. This prompted a massive backlash from the leftists that had helped elect them, but the ban still stands today.

This Guardian article gives a good explanation of what happened:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned#:~:text=2%20years%20old-,'A%20sense%20of%20betrayal':%20liberal%20dismay%20as%20Muslim%2D,to%20celebrate%20the%20LGBTQ+%20community.

There are also examples in the UK of Islamist intolerance of sex education which includes LGBTQ+ teaching in the UK.

https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-battle-at-birchfields-sex-relationships/

So Reform are often accused of Islamophobia, with their supporters citing Zia Yusuf's Muslim faith as a counter argument as why this can't be true.

Equally the Greens are often accused of anti semitism, with their supporters citing Zac Polanski's Jewish faith as a counter argument as why this can't be true.

In my opinion both are as bad and as dangerous as each other, except the Greens do have the advantage of wrapping themselves in a cuddly image of caring about climate change and polar bears.

So Reform are often accused of Islamophobia, with their supporters citing Zia Yusuf's Muslim faith as a counter argument as why this can't be true.

Equally the Greens are often accused of anti semitism, with their supporters citing Zac Polanski's Jewish faith as a counter argument as why this can't be true.

It's a little odd that (checks notes) concerns about less than 8% of the UKs population seems to obsess the other 92%.

@SerendipityJane by that argument it would be even more odd for people to obsess about billionaires.

Well you'd think.

But the agency of 1% of the population exceeds that of that other 99% anyway.

@SerendipityJane

Equally by that logic it is odd that 6.5% of the UK population (Muslim) seems to obsess about 0.5 % of the UK population (Jewish).

Or do you think that this is also a perception of influence issue as well ?

The Henry Jackson report showed that of British Muslims
34% believed Jews have too much control over the global banking system, and 33% believed they have too much control over political leadership.

I think religion has no place in politics. Which weirdly is very much a majority view as far as I am aware.