Gorton and Denton, what have you done?

[Imdunfer]

You have elected as an MP to stand in the UK&NI parliament a person who said in a panel interview with Annabel Tiffin from BBC Northwest Tonight that the Manchester Arena bombing was caused by people sewing division by questioning immigration.

That statement is so outrageous I don't even know where to start.

Agree, I would add the Greens to your list.

Do you even know that you owe your ability to fly away on holiday to a great British Inventor?

There is a lot to be proud of in our history. At the moment it is only fashionable to put on a hair shirt and wallow in our past sins while scrutinising them minutely through a lens of 21st century international morality.

Up to a point, I think the Greens and Reform are two cheeks of the same arse, in that they offer simple solutions to complex problems. I think the differences are:

(i) the Greens, however misguided on some things, are coming from a good place, wanting to make things better for people. Reform are overtly racist bigots.

(ii) it doesn't matter at this point whether the Greens are a viable government, as they're unlikely to win more than a handful of seats. There's every chance that Reform will at least be in coalition after the next election. that's fucking scary.

Also, are people really surprised that a constituency with lots of muslims voted tactically to beat a party that would expel their parents from the country, or persecute their children? Are they really?

ARRGGGH! clutches pearls. NOT MEN?

I’ve used the men’s loos loads of times. Occasionally, if I’m really busting (and it’s empty), I use the disabled or baby change. Am I a man or a baby or a disabled person? Nope, do I need a piss - yes. But what’s your tangential point? Surely there must be one…

I absolutely don't want men in women's changing rooms.

But I want a Reform government even less.

I think a Green government would be incredibly damaging. A Reform government would be catastrophic.

Could have been worse, Reform could have won. Do I think the Greens have a credible policy to govern.... absolutely not but is a hell of a lot better than getting Reform who will sow division and drag us closer to the US.

Thank you for your straightforward reply. I understand your point completely.

I'm also wondering who the hell I can actually vote for!

They don't get anywhere close to these far right parties, so no.

You lot are terrifying.

I fundamentally agree, but think when most people lament not being ‘great’ it’s more often out of ignorance rather than willingly skimming over the moral issues. There is a naive idea that a country can be ‘great’ in the sense of being preeminent on the world stage without considering that this has generally only been possible through history via conquest and exploitation.

Britain was definitely not average in recent centuries, but the link between this status and empire is still not being made. When it is, there are too many defensive voices and this allows people to avoid engaging with anything difficult. The recent National Trust stuff has made me realise that many people see the purpose of conserving heritage as giving us something to feel good about rather than a way of understanding historical reality.

Success as a country needs to look different to Victorian ideas of ‘greatness’.

People like you are the architects of the UK’s downfall. You clearly hate and despise this country and cheer at its downfall. If you hate Great Britain so much, then why don’t you stop wishing for its demise and find somewhere else to live that you don’t feel so ashamed of? I think you will find it very hard to find any country that doesn’t have regrettable points in its history.

It must feel very draining to feel so negative about your country of origin. May you wouldn’t feel that way if you took some time to learn about our culture and heritage?

It can’t be as bad as you say it is. Otherwise there wouldn’t be millions of tourists (around 40 million last year) and people desperate to come here to live.

Completely agree, which is why I posted above that I have no desire for the UK to be "Great Again" and dislike it as a slogan.

She is a white woman in a relationship with a muslim woman, of course she is sensitive about the anti-immigration/xenophobic/racist rhetoric of Reform. And it's sow the seeds, sewing is needles and thread. Typical of the Far Right to vilify people who can't speak English when most of them can't write it.

What's your feeling about her blaming people who want to discuss immigration for causing the arena bombing?

@thisistI'm 42 and never remember it being “great”. Please say what you really mean.

Have you got a link to this please? not doubting it, but I want to understand what she actually said.

Agree. I think this becomes a semantic game around the word great. It’s hard to claim Britain wasn’t a great nation by the standards of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. And this translated into material gains back home.

But unless we adopt a Putin-style mentality there is no going back to that!

You should vote Monster Raving Looney Party at the next election.
On of their policies is to ban the sale of grated cheese in supermarkets and only allow cheese to be sold in blocks.
This will make Britain grate again!

@easysundaytea , could you help me to understand what policies of the Green’s you particularly support and why? Also do they have policies you’re not keen on?

They don’t have a manifesto yet. I actually looked for it yesterday. There is nothing official on their website other than the last general election manifesto which was put together by the previous leadership. Zach Polanski like Farage says whatever he wants to get noticed (and this strategy is clearly working)

I don’t agree with a lot of what ZP has said but many voted Green as a specific vote against Reform, which is very welcome IMO.
However I am worried about the increasing polarization of politics, which I don’t think is helpful at all.

Once they get back in they’ll do all the things they did for 14 years. Why would you trust them again because the current leader is making the right noises. The vast majority of current and likely future MPs have not changed.

@TheNuthatch , Your username is awful btw. Why?
I have nothing against the person whose name it resembles even if I don't necessarily agree with her politics. Would SirEddaVey be awful too.

I agree that the tories were never in the race, they barely tried as its pointless in seats like this. Same for the Lib Dems.
I agree. I'm in a Labour 'safe seat' and the Conservative and Lib Dem candidates are not normally ones I'd choose to vote for.
At the last election the Labour's majority was drastically reduced by an 'independent' who was pushing the Gaza agenda. The constituency has a large Muslim population.

I don't really understand your fear of Reform winning the mayoralty, and I don't think that assumption is necessarily correct.
It might not be correct but Reform are too far right for my liking.

I’m glad you’ve highlighted that! Britain doesn’t need any more self regarding jingoistic rubbish

I can find a clip but it doesn’t show the question asked, but if you’re talking about this panel then it’s Goodwin who asks ‘so I’m responsible for the Manchester attack’ and Spencer says ‘of course that’s not what I’m saying’ . Do you have a better source for what you’re claiming?

https://x.com/leeharris/status/2024109242651729946/mediaviewer