Gorton and Denton, what have you done?

[Imdunfer]

You have elected as an MP to stand in the UK&NI parliament a person who said in a panel interview with Annabel Tiffin from BBC Northwest Tonight that the Manchester Arena bombing was caused by people sewing division by questioning immigration.

That statement is so outrageous I don't even know where to start.

Well said!

Would you say that if Reform Uk had won?

So glad the greens won. The thought of reform getting in scares me senseless.
I won't be voting labour because of backing Israel and supporting trump in Iran.
I'm not in favour of supporting a rapist nonce. As for the tories, don't make me laugh.

Funny how some critics call the Green MP working class and others moan that she has too much property or goes on holiday.

I'm going to vote conservative for the first time ever. I really like Kemi Badenoch. Smart, competent, takes her time to develop policy. She is a 'gets shit done' person. The alliance between Greens and the wider Muslim community won't last as they disagree on all other things outside of Gaza.

The Muslim community voted en masse for a white, Christian woman whose party leader is gay and of Jewish heritage. An outstanding demonstration of shared British values.

😝

None of which detracts from their understanding that what they were looking at was an archipelago, genius.

Illegals can't vote

What an extraordinarily self-congratulatory and smug reply.

You can disagree all you like that poor white people have been demonised by the Left, but being as I have heard and had conversations with left friends and colleagues and acquaintances since Brexit, you can't persuade me to forget the many conversations I have had.

What a ridiculous claim that I furthering division. That has been done by the people tearing down hostage posters, celebrating October 7th, attacking Jewish businesses, seeking to cancel Jewish performers, calling for death on the army defending Israel from those who would destroy them, realising the globalising of the intifada by murdering Jews and then attacking Jews after this ( there was an increase in hate crime against Jews after the Manchester bombing).

Naming a reality so that it can be addressed is not increasing division. Should we not have done the anti-racist campaigning in the 80s and 90s as it would 'increase division'. Or is it only when brown people are being racist, murderously racist, that we should stop our anti-racist campaigning and instead proclaim the brown people victims, and not the actual victims? You do realise that you are abandoning the victims when you do this. And the further victims. How do you think ignoring the reality of what is happening stops further victims? If you think if racism stops then Islamism will stop then you badly misguided by your ideology.

And I am at a loss to understand how you think you are creating peace by making aggressors the victims. How much do you think Campaign Against Anti-Semitism would identify you as a peace maker?

You are well intentioned but ignorant. You are the sort of person who is leaving Jews murdered and attacked whilst patting yourself on the back for not being racist. Its shameful and I am calling it out.

Being genuinely anti-racist doesn't mean doing what is popular or keeps you in with your mates. It means standing up for minorities - real tiny minorities like the Jews - who are being attacked, murdered. Even when that makes your unpopular, even if people call you names like racist because the people murdering jews are brown, even if you get attacked and lose friends. Because you know what, being a good person who stands up even at risk to yourself, does not bring you peace. Its actually really hard and takes a toll. But, unlike you, I don't prize my inner peace more than my self -respect. And I don't prize it more that my responsibility to those being attacked.

I've been tested as to whether I am the person I always liked to believe I am. Someone who stands up for those being attacked, even when there is a personal cost to that. I passed that test.

You look, like so many on the left, like you have reframed staying in your comfort zone as a virtue.

I’m not absolving any individual of their part in a murder that has stemmed from a terrorist attack, I am saying I understand how growing up in a society that hates you makes you vulnerable to becoming radicalised

And your second sentence completely contradicts the first.

The murderer of the Jews at the Manchester synagogue did not kill them because he grew up in a society that was racist to him as a Muslim. He grew up in a sub-society that was racist to Jews. That is the simple fact. He grew up in a family and culture that hated Jews. This is well evidenced. That is where his racist hatred came from. Have you troubled yourself to look into this at all?

And no, I am not saying ' all muslims' however much you need to believe I am because this feeds your simple 'you must be a racist' narrative. But all the Islamist terrorists are Muslim, and the ideology that is driving them is a homegrown one within a sub branch of Islam. It is not one that has been externally grown. Its been grown and nurtured within Muslims in Muslim countries and Muslim communities. No, not all Muslims have the same belief, but all Islamists are Islamists because they are Muslim.

I have a masters degree in Religion, and have spent considerable time reading and studying spending time in faith communities, particularly Christianity and Islam. I suggest you spend more time learning about fundamentalist religions and mindset and more time reading about Islamism before reaching your conclusions on the motivations of the Muslims who are killing Jews.

So you're against taking down the IRGC and a dictator who had women raped in prison so the regime could legally execute them? Iranians are literally cheering in the streets over this, while Corbyn and the UK left are up in arms. It speaks volumes.

Green Party leader Zack Polanski has hired a spin doctor who denies women were raped in the October 7 Hamas attacks in Israel.
Abi Wilkinson – appointed just days before the party’s victory in the Gorton and Denton by-election – posted on social media: ‘There is no Israeli woman who’s said she was raped by militants.’
She also tweeted: ‘There’s absolutely no new evidence, there is not a single identified victim.’

Has Polanski spoken out and said he doesn’t share Wilkinson’s views?

THOUGHT NOT.

Can you say a little more @Highmole about the poor white people being 'demonised' by the left?
Because as a WC white person, I see things rather differently. What I see is a strategy by the right to weaponise the WC as part of their anti immigration narrative. And that 'the left' while imperfect remains a far safer and far more sensible choice for those at the undesirable end of wealth inequality.
What i see, is that all of a sudden, people who couldn't have cared less that many poor white people live in inadequate housing, in unsafe areas, on below the poverty line incomes, who, if the subject came up, were pretty quick to blame it on their own poor choices/lack of ambition/scrounging, are suddenly framing themselves as allies against the 'enemy' of people who are not white.
All of a sudden, the narrative has shifted, and 'the right' are suddenly champions of poor white people, because they can blame their disadvantage on black and brown people.
To add insult to injury, we hear constantly it is WC people who are behind these racist narratives, thus establishing an unfair and inaccurate link between being white WC and being racist.
The WC doesn't just consist of white people. We live side by side with black and brown WC people who are our colleagues, neighbours and friends.
What I see from 'the left' is rightly 'demonising' racism. If this has been linked to being white and WC that's not the fault of the left.
If you're a WC person who sees things differently I'm interested in your perspective.

Interesting that you don't could musllims as a 'real minority' in this country, @Highmole. Thanks for laying bare your position so clearly.

What values do you suppose Mothin Ali, deputy leader of the Greens truly shares with the gay Jew and the white woman apart from their stance on Gaza and Israel and the fact that they want to stamp out 'Islamophia'? His wife covers her entire face and body including her hands and only her eyes can be seen. How does this, and the observed incidences of 'family voting' (ie. men accompanying their wives, daughters and mothers into the ballot box to make sure they vote as they've been told to) fit in with 'progessive' left wing politics? It's pretty much the very definition of misogynistic, patriarchal, ultra conservatism.

The Greens manifesto states they will campaign to end violence against women and girls. Scrap the Police, Crime Sentencing and Courts Act, the Public Order Act and other legislation that erodes the right to protest and free expression.
Campaign for the right of self-identification for trans and non-binary people.
Scrap the Prevent programme and tackle hate crime, misogyny, Islamophobia and antisemitism.

How does the Green Party realistically expect to do all of those things when there are some clear contradictions and conflicts of interest there, in terms of what various minority groups insist they should have a right to say and do?

Protecting Freedom of Expression will certainly lead to speech which is deemed Misogynistic, Islamophobic, Homophobic or Transphobic by the definitions of Green Party. Antisemitic? Hmm. Probably rather less so. I don't think the parameters defining Islamophobia and Antisemitism are quite the same for people like the Greens, are they? There always seems to be a 'get off the hook' clause where haranguing Jews is concerned, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

Truly stamping out what counts as Misogny by most fair minded people's definitions in the UK is going to be pretty tricky if they don't want be accused of Islamophobia and 'not understanding' Islam by Muslims, and standing up for women is going to be tricky when you insist on further rights to Trans self ID and access to women only spaces for men in dresses, aka women with penises. What about Muslim trans people? What a conundrum they present! Which Islamic religious, social and cultural spaces do they get free access to in all this, given that everything in Islam is about keeping the sexes as separate as possible everywhere but the family home? How do we tackle a Muslim trans woman's 'right' to enter the Women's wash room to perform the ritual ablutions before prayer for example? And their 'right' to enter the women's space at weddings and see all the women in their community uncovered, while the men party in a separate space?

Actually I can see why Mothin Ali might be okay with the Greens' plans to legalise prostitution because of course none of the prostitutes would ever be decent Muslims, would they? It's just that plenty of their clients would be. So I'm sure it's all good there.

And I can see why he'd be very keen on open borders and a free for all on immigration. I'm genuinely struggling to understand the rest though.

Let's not pretend that the vast majority of Muslim Green voters are engaging in anything more than sectarian politics. The Muslims of Gorton and Denton have been the useful idiots for the Green Party this week. Whereas the Green Party are setting themselves up to be the useful idiots for Islamism and the rise of Islamification of the UK for the rest of all time. They are just too short sighted and stupid to see it.

You forgot to mention legalising all drugs:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20e20rzje2o

Including heroin, crack etc etc etc

I love how selective people are when they talk about all the great policies the Green Party have.

Only part way down this thread so far but no one has yet mentioned their spin doctor Abi Wilkinson and her tweet that denies Hamas raped Israeli women in the October 7 attacks…despite the UN concluding there was evidence (and testimony from returning hostages has since shown awful themes of sexual violence).

The far left and the far right are as bad as each other. They both rely on divisiveness.

Just seen someone raised this already now - serves me right for getting annoyed mid thread at the selective policy posting!

You and I both have one thing in common, neither of us will change our opinions due to another person arguing the opposite thing on the internet and I imagine similarly like myself, you're also a busy person. I hope you realise though that I believe that both antisemitism (which although nothing major, I have actually experienced) and Islamophobia are both extraordinarily dangerous and abhorrent. I don’t know personally any Jewish or Muslim people that wish harm on the other. Of course both exist, we see that daily. The people I know wish for peace. I’ll be honest with you, I know far more Muslims than Jewish people as friends and the Jewish people i know are relatives who I occasionally visit with my mother so we aren’t sat around discussing politics or current affairs, it’s more general chit chat about our family. I know though that my grandmother and great aunt who I am still close to, both evacuees during ww2 would both be heartbroken at any form of violence or tragedy toward any religion. My Muslim friends who i do discuss politics with more often, were devastated by the actions of Hamas and have seen the fall out play out for the people and especially children of Gaza and are as greatly upset. It’s ok to have skin in the game and pick a side as you so clearly have, everyone is entitled to do so, but you can’t dismiss what the other side have endured.

The ‘hard left’ are prepared to ignore the misery and suffering from drug abuse, just so long as someone is sticking it to the man (Farage).

The left make me sick.

Meanwhile, they will be tying themselves in knots, trying to reconcile the removal of Khamenei, with their hatred of Israel, and their support of Gaza.…

Reform or Green won’t get in the next election. They’ve done their job - we voted for them because we were angry. Labour will learn, reboot and drop its reform light policiesand we’ll see Angela Rayner as Prime Minister

68% of voters in Gorton and Denton voted Green, Labour or Lib Dem.

Well, I think you will be in for a surprise then. Now that people have had a taste of life under a Labour government, including the many businesses that have gone under or who are struggling to keep going as a result of policies such as National insurance employers contribution increase, or people who have lost their jobs as a result, will not be voting Labour. I’m in a typical family of four, with myself and my husband working with two kids, and we are a LOT worse off. Labour haven’t got a hope in hell of winning next time, and thankfully G&D isn’t representative of the vast majority of the UK so the Greens w0nt get in either. Thank God.