Is it possible that Mandelson might bring Starmer down?

[CurlewKate]

?

You dont think it was useful to know that a PM has resigned first before the markets knew.

"I do enjoy a Le Carre novel that is true." wrote Pineneedlesincarpet earlier.

Obviously, no le Carre novel is true, because novels are fiction. By omitting the comma after novel, the meaning is obscured.

Remember, "let's eat grandma" doesn't mean the same as "let's eat, grandma". Punctuation matters. Yes, I used to be an editor; I was being facetious.

Oh I see. I had hoped it would be something interesting. But knew it wouldn't, realistically.

Yes I do agree punctuation matters although I find the annoying automatic predictive text on my phone too much to handle so punctuation does tend to fall by the wayside. Apologies.

We don't even know the full extent of what Mandelson was passing on, thats still being investigated by the Police, yet you have, just like a le Carre novel, jumped off at the deep end... now insinuating he was party to Russian spying, that Mandelson carried on sharing state secrets since 2015....

I'm surprised you haven't yet linked Mandelson to being in Paris in 1997, seen driving a white Fiat, leaving a tunnel.....

Come on. The PM has passed the case on to the cops. The guy is as crooked as they come. And yes we dont know the full extent of what he was passing on but the extent of what we do know is appalling. And of coyrse there is a reasonable suspicion that Epstein may have passed the secrets on to the highest bidder whicb may well be a foreign power. Why would he not have? Are you suggesting the guy is honest?

Im amazed at the people on this thread defending PM and the PM. We need a big clear out (of politics not this thread, obviously).

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost;
For want of a shoe, the horse was lost;
For want of a horse, the rider was lost;
For want of a rider, the battle was lost;
For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost,
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Warning: this isn't interesting either, but predictive text and a shitty keyboard is why I won't use the app!

I'm really not an enthusiast for conspiracy theories, but the route by which young Jeffrey encountered Ghislaine Maxwell, whose Czech father Robert owned Pergamon Press and the Mirror, who fell overboard on a moonlit night when the pension fund looked ropey, is probably just a long line of coincidences. I think that only le Carre could have done the story justice.

My God! You re wasted!

You should be writing Political Thrillers!

Seriously, Starmer didn't involve the Police, Reform and SNP did, the Police then decided there was enough to investigate, you ve now expanded that to include "International spying" "Foreign Powers...."

What Police involvement does mean though is that information will be scarce, giving your imagination and no doubt plenty more right wing posters... free reign!!!

We don't what happened.... who was involved... but either way, none of this was known about when Starmer appointed Mandelson as US Ambassador...

Btw, don't take any of this to mean i support Starmer, i don't but i do think there is definitely a witch hunt going on here but if he does stay, he needs to get rid of McSweeney and have some decent help in number 10.

I agree and disagree @Alexandra2001 . Gordon Brown is categorical that he warned SKS about Mandelson before his appointment as Ambassador. However, his existing connections to Trump, via Epstein, were just too useful to waste, and while I have never met either man, I am certain that both can, in my DH's rather vulgar expression, lick their own eyebrows. Too suave and silky, but very very sharp practitioners.

@Papyrophile sorry I thought your comment ‘for want of a comma a snit begins’ was a paraphrase of ‘for want of a nail’ posted above.
But I think I’ve got the wrong end of the stick!

Nope you're bang on @38thparallel - I thought it was funny anyway!

Theres no witch hunt. The problem is its all there in writing for us all to read.

Mandelson was reported to the police by number 10 who asked them to investigate.

Everyone knew PM was untrustworthy based on past behaviour and was seen to be still friends with Epstein post conviction. This was always known prior to his appointment as ambassador hence why the hoo ha at the time.

I genuinely don't think you are helping your case by downplaying things. I don't think even the Labour Party or many MPs are downplaying it or making excuses for once. Its pretty bad Alexandra. I think we all know it so while I usually appreciate your contrarian approach and advocating for devils, we are talking about someone who is a criminal, a traitor and who maintained a close friendship with a convicted paedophile and sex traffiker. So no need to make such light about it?

I think it's almost inevitable now. There needs to be a vote of no confidence in KS and see if he wins it or not. The long speculation is damaging for our economy.

What on earth makes you think that Labour MPs would vote to trigger a general election right now? Of course they won't.

If Labour MPs want Starmer out, they don't need to vote themselves out of a job to get rid of him. They can just have a party leadership election instead.

FT

One option being discussed by some MPs is a delegation of Labour select committee chairs being sent to tell Starmer his time is up. “He’s a decent man and he might be persuaded to see that it’s not working,” said one MP.

The problem, as one Labour official observed, is that nobody can be sure who would win the contest. “The left hate Wes and the right can’t stand Angela or Ed [Miliband, energy secretary].”

One Labour MP said Starmer’s leadership was “over and done”, adding: “The only questions left are when, how and how painful.”

Firstly let's correct your misunderstanding regarding Profumo . Lord Denning concluded in his investigation that there was no evidence of Profumo passing state secrets to Keeler, although clearly it was a security risk that she was also sleeping with the Russian Naval attaché Ivanov.

Secondly as for Starmer being a lame duck, the reality is that any Labour alternative would not be able to do a better job and would probably do a lot worse.

Getting rid of Starmer will depending on who his replacement is will see an increased exodus of Labour voters to either Reform or the Greens.

The only person, in effect, playing it down, is your good self, needless speculation, based on what? nothing more than your imagination.

SNP first reported Mandelson to the Met, not number10, so try and be factual?

No evidence, atm, anything was passed to the Russians.

The publishing of emails and whatsapp messages could be very telling and damaging....

Lets see what the Police find shall we? hopefully enough to see Mandelson on trial.

Firstly, you're missing the point. Its the scandal of Profumo itself that I'm likening today to. Not the exact facts of the case. As I said, there are clear echoes but we don't need to be so prescriptive about things! So thank you for the "correction" but no need.

As long as Labour don't produce a worse PM although David Lammy (yes, David Lammy, folks) is being touted apparently.

@Alexandra2001 It is not the imagination of the posters in this thread who is relating Epstein with several spy nets, being one of them Russia. There are plenty of reports published in well known and respected newspapers pointing at Epstein as a spy agent, for more than one government. Rumours have turned into full on truths around Epstein quite a few times by now. People are still afraid to tell all they know due to the sheer level of connections this man had. Let's keep pulling off Mandelson rope. I think we will find quite a bit at the end.

Have Number 10 passed on the case to the police and asked them to investigate or not? I expect half the country has reported him to the Police!

Good on Reform though being quick off the mark. At least they know right from wrong.

If its sufficient to see Mandelson on trial, it’s not going to play out well for Starmer, is it?

Particularly when Mandy turns nasty, and goes full nuclear on Starmer.

One Labour MP said Starmer’s leadership was “over and done”, adding: “The only questions left are when, how and how painful.”

That certainly seems to be the view of opinion formers in papers such as the Guardian.

It's fine arguing about what the PM did or didn't know about Mandelson, sure he might have had the required skills to handle POTUS, but every man or woman in the street above a certain age with a functioning memory knew appointing Mandelson to the DC position was likely to end in tears....

So be it!

No one is above the law but in this case, i doubt Mandelson has anything illegal on Starmer, he may well do on others, inc Farage etc especially if there are indeed spy links to Russia.

Reform already have 'form on this... not that you'd think so given the scarcity of the coverage.

Farage also, at the time, approved of Mandelson as US ambassador but now says "it was a grave error of judgement..."

Revisionism at its finest.

Why the fixation on Reform? (But did you see their win in Anglesey just now?)

The developing story is Starmer - this weekend could prove interesting. It’s also staggering that one of his potential successors is precluded from making a move whilst her tax affairs are under investigation by HMRC. Is this really the best Labour can do???

At least, Labour has one MP with integrity….

Brian Leishman, Labour MP for Alloa and Grangemouth, says Keir Starmer's apology to Epstein's victims yesterday was "nowhere near enough".

He says the PM has shown "incredible misjudgement" in appointing Mandelson. "It goes beyond saying sorry," he tells BBC Breakfast.

Asked about Starmer's future, Leishman says the situation is developing "hour by hour, day by day". He adds that "people who surround" the PM also need to be looked at, including his chief of staff Morgan McSweeney.

Pushed again on Starmer's future, Leishman says the PM should live by his own words and "put country before party".

Asked how many colleagues share this sentiment, Leishman says he won't speak for others, but adds that their position was clear in the House of Commons on Wednesday, when they called for "transparency, openness and honesty".

Leishman says it is "absolutely, categorically" a good procedure for ministers to hand over private communications with Mandelson.