Rachel Reeves - potential successor?

[GroundZero]

Apparently, the Tories have launched a petition www.sackreeves.com urging the PM to sack the Chancellor, after she was accused of misleading the public over the state of the UK’s finances.

If she is sacked, who could/should replace her?

@TomPettysBrokenHeart, no you are right, despite however much we hope, the government is not going to fall, but we must never give up on hope.

Dostoevsky never gave up on hope, “things collapse, humans can still choose change”.

We? I am not a Labour supporter, but I don't want the government to fall or be zombiefied. Instability is not good for the UK, nor is a zombie government, as was demonstrated by the last administration. I suppose Putin's supporters in the UK might be happy, as it would play into their hands.

"Things collapse, humans can still choose change”. That's a good quote. We can continue to hope for the collapse of Reform and Farage. Labour might then change course in some policy areas and stop chasing the Reform vote. 🤞

And Labour may collapse even further 🤞

No, I don't hope for that, for the reasons set out in my post. Reform supporters will naturally hope differently as the sooner there is a GE the better for Farage.

I just want Labour out, I'm not bothered which party/coalition does that. I'm not tribal.

You might not mind having a racist as PM. I very much do.

Agree with pp on this response being bad.

Why would you want a chancellor that pisses off maximum amount of people?

1/3 of hospitality are facing closure unless Labour reverse policies. That’s livelihoods and jobs. Anyone happy with that must feel incredibly immune.

I agree with you @twistyizzy

I'm historically a labour voter in a tory constituency (sometimes lib dem, never lab) and I vote tactically lib or green. I am beyond disgusted with this Labour government

I think about the opportunities they've thrown away and the chances they've missed. Also the lies and dissembling...... and it makes me so angry

I can't understand WHY they've chosen to fuck it up so badly. WHY they've chosen to make such ludicrous choices and decisions

But I'll tell you this.....Farage will be the UKs ultimate end of days downfall. I'd rather Badenoch than him, and I despise her.

I feel truly hopelessly depressed about British politics atm. Said by a Labour voter (at heart) with a Labour government with a huge majority

That says it all

🙄😭

Instability is with us, whether you would choose it or not.

The country is beholden to the back benches, and unions.

I think the government needs to fall. We need a general election, we cannot go on like this and they won’t go willingly.

im in my 50s and I have never seen anything like this. From the freebies, to the tax avoidance,to the lying to the public to take ordinary working people’s money via stealth taxes to give it out in benefits, when so many now can’t afford to heat their homes, or eat properly. Through to freezing licenses in the North Sea so we all pay more for utilities as we now have to import all gas. The rising unemployment due to the taxes on business.

ive never ever seen anything so corrupt, mishandled, and inept in all my years. And if the only way for it to stop is to have the government fall then so be it. But we cannot do another 4 years like this.

the utter shame of it. How starmer lied and lied to get elected, he’s as far left as they come, even more far left than the communist head of unite. Who has now also taken issue. They lie, they avoid taxes, they grab freebies, they screw the working person. It’s just shameful. These people need to have a criminal investigation now. As it is far beyond simple incompetence. This is defrauding the British public and abuse of power in public office.

How starmer lied and lied to get elected, he’s as far left as they come, even more far left than the communist head of unite

Starmer is not a communist! He is not even far left.

Starmer is what anyone paying the highest cheque wants him to be. He is a weak leader with no moral compass despite what he would try and persuade otherwise. He too is spineless, shameless and aimless.

@TomPettysBrokenHeart, do you not feel
that we are living in unstable times? I do and despite my optimistic nature, I can’t shake that feeling.

Where is the promise, hope of growth? Where is the productivity.

Our public services are bloated and lack productivity.

We need radical change not dubious interpretations of lies/black holes/ fiscal head room. Isn’t that just middle management meddling.

Despite the ambiguity of what the government did or did not do regarding the public finances,
what is clear is that our leaders are not up to the job. And we know the rot set in a long, long time ago.

He says he’s not. But actions speak louder than words, and his actions, what he’s putting in, is far left. They are stealth taxing average working peiple to give to welfare recipients; even unite has had enough. They don’t care where the money comes from, got a job, they are taking your money and giving if fo welfare recipients, it’s as far left as it gets.

@TheRealGoose, Starmer is actually as far away from being a communist and from being far left as you could get.

What is he, I say he is a hollow man, but politically, he falls somewhere in the category of technocratic, liberal centrist. Now that deserves thread on its own. We could really start talking about instability and decline then.

Again, I fully understand how starmer portrays himself, absolutely he portrays himself as fairly central. However there is no part of me beleives that starmer was not in cohoots with reeves and signed off all these tax rises. 70 billion over the last 2 budgets. 70. With a massive bloating of the welfare provision. It’s far left.

now we could argue is he just a weak man, appeasing the far left to keep himself in power. Signing off in lying to the public to appease his backbenchers and give them what they want, sure, I think that’s likely the case. But what he’s doing is far left. Be it as he’s appeasing the momentum side of his party, or he believes in it. It is what he is doing.

they have lied and increased taxes by 70 billion over their two budgets. We now have the highest tax burden since records began much of it stealth tax. They even tried to take the fuel payment from pensioners, as they thought some didn’t need it.

so it doesn’t really matter what starmer believes in, what starmer does is what matters, and this isn’t reeves acting alone.

@TheRealGoose, I see where you are coming from but raising taxes, in today’s political culture doesn’t make this government far left, just as the low taxes of the previous government doesn’t make them far fight.

High tax, low growth, growing welfare state, economies are the apparatus of technocratic,
liberal, centrist governments. Dare I say it look at Europe.

I am trying to my head around this narrative that I am reading more and more about, that of
”managed decline”. Which boils down to managing low growth, low productivity, failing public services rather than doing anything to
actually change things.

Keir Starmer, though does have to appease his rebellious back benchers and the Unions, a
proportion of whom are far left and/or communist. I guess that is where you are coming from. I did read that this budget was to appease the backbenchers. Which doesn’t make Starmer a communist but does show his best middle
management skills.

Not sure if RR is going anywhere - she is, imho, out of her depth (and I say this as both a former labour voter and someone with experience in senior economic roles in government and the budget process), but her self-belief or dissonance between her ability and reality is on a par with Liz Truss so she won't resign. And her fortunes are intrinsically linked with those of Keir Starmer, so he will be wary of opening the question of who would replace her - as it will probably signal even more how split Labour is.

If she was going to be replaced, there are quite a few candidates. Torsten Bell has a strong academic background but, despite being left-leaning but not popular with the left of the Labour Party (who feel he is a technocrat rather than a party person). And given that he was the brains behind this budget, appointing him will be seen as doubling down / not listening to people.

If we are looking for people with an economic background in the front bench, Yvette Cooper and Ed Milliband are options, but each one comes with questions, most notably EM given past history and fractious relations with business community. Pat MacFadden is always a candidate but he is now at DWP and his move will further signal that welfare reform is not a priority. And does Starmer want to move the top cabinet around again?

Darren Jones is another option, still close to Keir Starmer and familiar with HMT (not an economist but many Chancellors have not been economists), so he could be a "safe(r)" option.

So probably no clear candidate and not sure it will come to pass.

Yes I am not sure we are in opposing positions here really, I fully agree raising taxes does not make it far left. Raising taxes to the extent it’s the highest since records began, taking 70 billion extra in two budgets and giving so much of it in welfare that welfare recipients will in many cases be much better off financially than those who work is very far left. That’s the point I’m making.

its irrelevant though, I am not going to argue where it is in the political spectrum, I take issue with the lying, the freebies, them avoiding paying taxes, and then bloating the welfare hand outs by so much and taking money offf of average working people via a raft of stealth taxes to do it, when we are already in a col crisis, many working people now can’t heat their homes, go to food banks, or food suport services and live on very basic meals. Because they pay so much in tax which is now going to welfare recipients much better off than those who worked to give them the money,

and that’s before we get into the rest of the mess, the business taxes, the tax on oil and gas now up to 78 percent seeing them all exit or downsize, the going green by 2030 mantra, with heat pumps and evs, which they are also taxing the arse out of.

which ever way we cut it, and however we call the politics, this is far far away from tax the rich to give to the poor. It is tax everyone who works to give to those who don’t.

Nobody is interested in what the Tories want.

The public aren’t really with Labour though. And they’re unhappy with the budget too.

Agree with both of these. It is of course why Reform are riding so high.

Mel Stride has written to the FCA asking them to investigate possible market manipulation by Reeves and the treasury, if she were to be found guilty of that she would be in a lot of trouble and would have to go, likely followed by Starmer.

Watching! I saw her this morning on Laura Kuenssberg. I don’t normally watch this government on TV but glad I did today.

No matter what we feel about the Starmer government, got to hand it them on deflection.

Tomorrow it will be as if it didn’t happen. Nothing to see here. And that is why Reeves did the rounds today.

Although I am sure he will make a statement tomorrow, about his full confidence in the chancellor, about raising millions of children out of poverty and about his mission to push forward, harder and faster to better the lives
of “working people”.

It is will be interesting though to see if
there is a FCA investigation.

Richard Huges Chair of the OBR, is appearing before the Treasury Select Committee on Tuesday. Another one to watch.

😂