What will life be like under Reform?

[Easipeelerie]

I have accepted the likelihood of the next government being Reform. I don’t think the government after that will necessarily be Reform. But in the 4 Reform years, what do people think life will be like for the different groups in our country? Will we see very immediate changes?

This’ll

I can't think of any policies Badenoch has proposed which show mixed loyalties. Can you?

To me it is an absolute minimum requirement that any member of the UK Parliament must always put UK interests first within their work.

I'm perfectly happy with a Member of Parliament / Cabinet Minister / Prime Minister who is 2nd generation British like Sunak, or 1st generation British as Badenoch identifies.

But they must put the UK's interests first in their work.

Which Lammy policies have loyalties elsewhere?

Do you think it is racist to tell him to go back to the Caribbean or do you find that acceptable?

Do you think Farage is putting the UK's interest first? Clacton's interests?

I already gave you a link to a government examination into his support for 'Reparative justice' to Caribbean countries.

That's not in the UK's interests.

Telling him to go back to the Caribbean was a shitty thing to say. But was it racist? Well...

1.Would he have said the same thing to a white Afrikaans-origin MP who was suggesting reparations? Probably.

2.Would he have said the same thing to a black MP who wasn't suggesting reparations, against the UK interests? Probably not.

So it's Lammy's actions and policies he had a problem with, not his skin colour.

Did Lammy's ethnic origin make Chris Parry react more strongly to a policy he thought was objectionable: because it confirmed a prejudice? Probably.

Should we police people's thoughts? Absolutely not.

I don't think Parry should have spoken the way he did: he should have raised his concern professionally and politely. But he was right to raise his concern.

You still haven't told me which of Badenoch's policies you think go against UK interests.

Ok, you are not condemming his comments. Just as Reform hasn't.

They already lost quite a few councillors over racism.

And yes I know, you are not a Reform voter.

And you're not condemning Lammy pushing 'Restorative Justice' against the UK's interests.

Why do you hate the UK?

I don't really know what Badenoch's policies are. I think she wants to fix some of the things that the previous government she was part of broke.

But she supports Brexit and Musk, I think that is very much against the UK's interest.

Is that a serious question?

I don't hate the UK.

Do you?

But that's clearly a question of political judgement. She thinks it's in the UK's interests. You don't.

Completely different from Lammy proposing to give UK taxpayers money to other countries with no benefit to the UK: just because he thinks the other country deserves that money more.

Do you condemn Lammy's support for 'Restorative justice'?

No, I don't hate the UK. I am strongly against reparations or 'Restorative Justice'

You are right, we have different political beliefs.

In the same vein, Lammy thinks it's in the UK's interest, you don''t.

I don't tell someone I disagree with to go home.

How could he possibly think it's in the UK's interest to give huge amounts of UK taxpayers money to another country over many generations - getting nothing in return - just because he thinks that country deserves it more?

No. It isn't the UK's interests he is serving there. Not even slightly.

An MP doing that isn't just a political difference of opinion. It's a betrayal of their responsibility.

Whatever Lammys position earlier, he now supports non financial means, such as emphasising skill and science exchanges, and strengthening relationships with former colonies...such things could be seen as in out national interest.

Meanwhile Badenoch supports Brexit and Musk, 2 things that are definitely not in the UKs interests, not a matter of political judgement at all,
How can leaving one of the worlds largest trading blocs be in our interests? not too mention drive x channel migration....
How can aligning with a man who wants to undermine UK democracy be in our favour?

But you re all ok with these.

Like most Tories, blind to the damage your party has and would do to the UK.

Neither Brexit nor Musk are clearly against the UK's interests - you're creating a false equivalence with giving away our money to other people for no reason.

Typical Labour - missing the point entirely due tribal, ideological blindness.

@TopPocketFind
Telling someone to go home is wrong but Lammy was clearly identifying with and putting another country's interest before British interests when he suggested reparations. This suggests he did not seem himself as British first, which is a big problem when he is an MP. In this context, the comment is excusable in my opinion because it should make any British person angry.
@strawberrybubblegum has explained much better than I could the reasoning. Thanks

@Alexandra2001 your comments about Badenoch do not show someone acting against British interests. She is making decisions based on what she thinks will benefit the UK the most-even though you may disagree on whether it works or not.

On a separate note-Rachel Reeves has made some very bad decisions for business e.g raising NI on businesses and raising the minimum wage so that SMEs can't afford to pay people, which is now leading to an increase in unemployment. We need tax reform, which she isn't bold enough to do. At the same time, she has increased spending when we have a budget deficit, which is the fifth highest of 36 advanced economies globally.

Yes apart from he has clearly said No Financial Reparations... who is deliberately trying to twist the narrative? Tories going to Tory!

Musk wants to undermine UK democracy, he has said so and actively supports Tommy Robinson... how is that not against UK interests?

Brexit is now costing the country billions each year.

• Various independent economic analyses, including studies by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), have produced the following estimates of Brexit's impact:
• Lost Tax Revenue: The UK is losing an estimated £65 billion to £90 billion annually in lost tax revenue due to the reduced economic growth caused by Brexit.
• GDP Reduction: The UK's GDP per capita is projected to be 6-8% lower in 2025 than it would have been without Brexit, a more severe impact than initial official forecasts of around 4%.

Giving away our money for no good reason indeed.....

Plenty of white British politicians have suggested Financial Reparations, its funny that racist remarks come under "Freedom of Speech" (because you tacitly agree) but Lammy doesn't have the same rights to voice his opinion, as its all ok to accuse him of being anti British and he should go home (he was born in the UK)
But once again, he no longer supports Financial reparations, is he allowed to change his mind?
Badenoch certainly is, you d think she was never in the last Govt for 5 years, considering the number of policy u-turns she has made.

On NI, Reeves has to fund increased defence spend, around 60bn, PO and blood scandals, 11bn of lost NI revenue, due to Hunts cuts.... these are immediate demands.

So which taxes would you have put up instead? bare in mind income tax increases would trash consumer confidence and would mean employees demand even higher wage rises....

The NMW has to reflect living costs, which under the Tories, went sky high, food inflation almost 30%.
Higher wages mean lower UC claims.

Tax Reform? the Cons had 14 years to do that and never did it.
Tax Reform takes a long time, 4 to 5 years, so the only party that benefits is the next Govt, hence why no one does it.
It also means winners (the poor) and losers (the wealthier) - look at the Farms IHT measures or ISA changes, highly unpopular... another reason no one touches it.

Tax the wealthier? oh yes, howls of "they are leaving the UK"

Its a lose lose for any Govt but i agree it needs doing, we have the most complicated tax system anywhere but how?

Brexit is without doubt against the UK’s interests. The economy has shrunk 8% as a result. There’s not a single economist who doesn’t regard it as an act of self harm.

You sound a bit like the 'America First' brigade in the US. Remind me how well that is going for the US economy? We live in a big interconnected world. Narrow home nation first policies are stupid and ineffective in that situation, and the people who demand such policies really need to do a bit of reading.

It's your political opinion, and many other oeople. However it obviously isn't remotely self-evident that it isn't in the UK's self interest - since more than 50% of people who voted thought it was!

I voted Remain, but I do think it's nuanced and that it won't be clear for a generation whether it was the right choice.

Even the economists who championed Brexit admit it has damaged the UK. Musk uses his platform X to amplify Russian propaganda and disinformation- both of these things weaken and divide us. Russia is no friend to the UK and yet Musk, Trump, Farage all fan boy for Putin.