Labour Supporters - Do you think it would help if KS was replaced?

[Mrsmunchofmunchington]

I am a life long labour voter. Like many I am incredibly disappointed, in fact I’m devastated by the direction of the current government.

Something needs to change in a pretty radical way or we are opening the door to Deform.

I’m torn between thinking the last thing we need is another revolving door at no 10 but I have lost any confidence that KS is able to lead us out of the mess the tories left us in.

Would it be a good thing to change leaders if this was possible and if so who should it be?

Possibly.
Yvette Coopwr, Emily Thornbury or Andy Burnham.

Or the wonderful Jess Philips. But l don’t think she’s interested.

Pwrsonally I’d quite like Corbyn back.

Agreed OP.
I want to think that KS is a decent guy who wants the best for his country, but he just seems indecisive and ineffectual! and I take no pleasure in saying that. I desperately want them to succeed and sort the country out.
Like you I'm torn. I really don't like the upheaval of the revolving door of ministers/PM either.

Yes he needs replacing but the other options are unpalatable although I feel Andy Burnham would be good he isn’t an MP and I’m sure he’s said he doesn’t want to be.

Neither JP or ET know what a woman is so that is them out. Whilst I quite like YC she’s too wet. We need a strong leader and the LP don’t seem to have anyone. I feel if they have a leadership contest it’ll
swing left and then the country will be in more trouble.

The issue they have is that the cabinet are more central but many MPs are left so they can’t get anything sensible through, the benefit changes being case in point.

Someone with a bit more get up and go, for example Andy Burnham - I do hope he's planning a return to the Commons before the next GE.

There is anyone suitable.

Are you a Reform or Tory voter?

No, I don’t think it would help and I don’t think it’s a good idea. I do not think it is desirable to get into thinking that we give PMs a year or so, and then boot them out if we aren’t happy. I just think it’s pointless.

That’s not me saying I think he’s amazing, although I do think he’s a decent man. I just think that if it was someone else, then in a year, it still wouldn’t be amazing and you’d be thinking “hmm let’s maybe try someone else”.

And that’s not even mentioning the fact I’m not convinced they have a reasonable selection of decent alternatives.

He doesn’t come over as decisive enough, think he’s quite genuine in what he wants to achieve, as was Sunak, but doesn’t have the charisma to carry it forward, problem is, who in the party does, labour needs a Boris type character, someone who, regardless of their very obvious faults, inspired and appealed to voters

I will vote Reform - I am educated and never thought I would say this but the establishment needs a kick in the arse. Of course Reform won’t last but it will kick existing parties in shape. Sorry but nothing can stop them now. I am desperately hoping for a new general election next year

No

I can’t get past KS targeting disabled people. Before that I thought he was a decent chap doing his best with a poisoned chalice.

Whilst I don’t disagree with benefits ever being looked to see if the criteria is correct and appropriate, the way this was done would have affected tens of thousands with entirely genuine disabilities who absolutely need and deserve the payment.

It was spun as being about stopping mildly ASD teenagers and young people from sitting in their bedrooms gaming forever more instead of looking for a job.
But the truth was very far removed with people of all ages with disabilities from MS to severe arthritis to cancer also facing losing an essential benefit.

Ditto the Winter Fuel payment. Of course very rich pensioners do not need this payment but cuts should have been with a sliding scale not a cliff edge which meant those just above living hand to mouth losing out.

Then we have the “Reform lite” messaging over immigration.

I agree that immigration needs urgent management but knee jerk pandering to racists and borderline racists is not the way to handle it.

KS is polling with lower approval numbers than trump. This is because most of trump’s maga crowd still love him, and doubtless will do no matter what he gets up to.

KS on the other hand is in a country where we don’t generally subscribe to the cult of personality to that extreme and he has shown disdain for core labour supporters in a complete turnaround from traditional labour values so not only do non labour voters dislike him, his own voters don’t like him either.

I'm not a Labour supporter and would never vote Labour as I'm not a socialist so I don't know if I'm welcome on your thread OP. But I am a supporter of this country, I have children about to go out into the world and I desperately want the UK to do well no matter who is in power.

I think a main issue (ignoring economic differences between what I believe in and what Labour believe in) is that Keir Starmer seems to prioritise the "human rights" of everyone in the world over his own population. This is perfectly understandable in a lawyer. I'm a lawyer myself and love rules. But the current international framework (such as the ECHR) seems to be detrimental to countries like the UK where we don't have ID cards, we have the NHS and we have a generous benefits system. Other countries seem to act in their own best interests (ie the interests of their own population) but Keir Starmer and the AG clearly don't believe that the Uk's interests are paramount over the human rights of the rest of the world if they had to chose.

This is seen in the Chagos deal. No one has a real clue why this has happened. We aren't really told; we just try and guess why. If it turns out to be just due to the (non legally binding) opinion of the UN and we chose to pay billions to a China-aligned state to give them our own strategically important territory just to look virtuous, then that really sums up the problem with Keir Starmer.

The real question is has the Labour base changed so fundamentally that they are no longer patriotic or want the best for the UK? If they haven't, then they need to get rid of KS ASAP.

Why would there be a general election next year? Why would that ever happen? There’s no reason for Starmer to call one, or for Labour MPs to vote with other parties to force one in a vote of no confidence - if it got so bad they were considering voting for that, it would be turkeys voting for Christmas, they’d just be voting to lose their jobs. This isn’t a barely held together coalition that might collapse at any time. This is a government with a large majority.

And I’d be saying that whoever was in power in that situation. If Farage gets in and it’s a shit show (which it bloody will be), they won’t call an election two years in either, and nor should they, no matter how much other people might stamp their feet.

There is absolutely no benefit in this constant desire to switch leader or party, this immediate “this isn’t working straight away, next one!!”. Sunak had barely been in a few months before people were saying he should probably resign, and that was absolutely ridiculous as well.

Reform will need a few years to be ready anyway. So an election next year (assuming Reform will be in power next) is probably too soon for them. Whoever is next needs to be ready to do whatever they promised in their manifesto, no matter what stripe they are.

No because the problem the Labour Party has is that they are far too broad a church and they made stupid promises re tax to get elected which have now hamstrung them. Change of leader can’t help them. They need to split and have a Blairite party and a Corbyn party. A Blairite party will likely win a majority as will hoover up the ex Tories who can’t stand Reform.

Who might do the job?

Obvious candidate is Wes Streeting who is itching for it.

I'd prefer Andy Burnham but he's not an MP.

I don't think he should go, but I do think he needs a better coach for both public speaking and leadership.

I think they have to address the issues of the day, currently immigration. The problem seems to be a lack of strategy (just saying numbers isn't a strategy), and bouncing from one idea to another.

With the winter fuel payment, I am very much in agreement that it should be ended. It's insane that we are more or less saying people can't live on the state pension, so we give them a separate payment for heating, but it's not means tested. The problem is that the name of it makes it very emotive. It was a gift to the media, screaming about "freezing pensioners to death" and other rubbish. But equally it was a very odd thing to lead in with not long after they were elected, it's like they have zero media savvy. I think they sealed their fate a bit very early on with that.

Benefits needs to be modernised, but turning the civil service ship takes years, not months. It took IDS years to get UC off the ground. UC was a good idea in principle, but not easy to execute.

It's also not right to say they are picking on disabled people. See above re winter fuel payment. But also the NI increase, various other taxes which could limit entrepreneurialism, not changing the tax thresholds which makes most people worse off. Plenty of groups git a hit, and it's needed. And I say that as someone worse off as a result of their budgets, but I expected to be.

Agree with all of this.

There is a Corbyn party, with the actual person. I guess if people want more left wing policies Corbyn / Polanski and co are there.

Yes I know but i guess it’s the age old problem with existing Left of party MPs being keen to hold onto their seats and fuck their principles 🤣. Better to just sink the Labour Party with infighting than split off and risk being on the losing side. God I’m so over Uk politics ( all parties ).

This. And as @ShesTheAlbatross said further down, no way will there be an election in 2 years' time. That is Farage getting people riled up. Labour have a huge majority. They're in power till 2029. Folk need to stop agitating for a return to the merry go round.

Yes but only if with someone sensible.

we don’t need another Corbyn.

I think labour need to go back to their grassroots. Andy Burnham would be my choice.

I just want a stable government. Not a re-run of the last nearly decade when there were general elections, or leadership elections every year (or at least that’s what it felt like!)

Our country is a state - but I wonder it’s because there is an expectations results/changes immediately rather than recognising that it takes ages?

No, stability is important after the last government.