Ban the burka?

[TalkToTheHand123]

Question asked in the commons today. Should it be banned?

So basically everyone shut up and keep quiet. Got it.

It’s not about that really. It’s looking at the values someone listed below and questioning whether the burka fits with those.

Since you keep telling people they don’t know what “indigenous” means, can you explain what exactly your understanding of that term is?
The previous poster described things like halal slaughter and face coverings as something that “has been part of indigenous British practice for decades already”, would you agree with that?
And if so, would you say that the rules introduced by the “foreign invaders” who ruled “your people” and banned items of clothing they didn’t like would become “indigenous” to your original culture too, after a few decades?

Seems there is a long history of trying to control what people wear https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-25127293.amp

If you want to know what indigenous means try looking it up. It isn't my "understanding" - argue with the dictionaries if you don't like their "understanding".

And no - banning items of clothing was one of the factors that led us to revolution and throwing the *** out! You see, banning things can have unintended consequences. You think that by banning something you will quash what you think it represents, and what you get is a revolution.

Has there been a revolution in Tajikistan?

or Denmark or France or other countries where it is banned?

@Rosiesposy And how do you know if every single Muslim woman is usually forced to wear the burka or niqab? Women do take off their veil in the airport/bank etc. when they have to show their face so I’m not sure what sort of security issue you are referring to? Does that mean face masks can’t be worn in public anymore?

Most of Europe has banned the Burqa. Below are some of the non European countries that have also banned it, as well as the niqab. You will see that many of them are majority Muslim countries and others have a large Muslim population/cultural history.

Tajikistan, Morocco, Egypt, Algeria, Syria, Tunisia, Chad, Republic of the Congo, Kazakhstan, Gabon, Cameroon, Sri Lanka, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan.

Are you talking about the English control of Ireland. If not then there’s not just one country clearly.

’they're hanging men and women for the wearing of the green’….which the English did,

Irish here,

try looking it up

Exactly the reply I was expecting.

Why? Are you incapable of using Google. I am not here to educate you, which I doubt is possible. Why would I need to tell you again to look it up yourself?

@DrPrunesqualer Got it.

@ginasevern I can write you a list of countries that have the death penalty. That doesn't make it right. A list of counries than ban the burqa is simply a list - it has no meaning and doesn't make forcing women to wear what you want them to any better than someone else forcing them to wear what they want them to. Why do you have such a problem with letting women choose for themselves what they wear?

I am not here to educate you, which I doubt is possible.

Why do you keep ranting at everyone who questions your posts?

Fwiw, this is what Google has to say about the claim made on this thread that halal slaughter and face coverings have been part of indigenous British practice for decades:

”The claim that halal slaughter and face coverings have been part of indigenous British practice for decades is inaccurate. While religious slaughter, including halal and shechita, has been practiced in the UK for a long time, and face coverings are becoming more common, neither practice is rooted in pre-existing indigenous British traditions.”

Because as a society we are entitled to have discussions about what people can and can’t wear in public. We already have rules around public decency and institutions are allowed to have rules about what people can wear whilst frequenting them. The idea that we have free choice about what we can wear all the time is completely untrue.

We could say that there is no national ban on burqa but we could make it that institutions are free to allow or disallow them on their premises just as those premises are free to allow a women inside wearing a bikini or not.

@PhilippaGeorgiou "Why do you have such a problem with letting women choose for themselves what they wear?"

I don't, but I do have a problem with social constructs created exclusively by men and imposed on women.

My exact experience too. I grew up in a massively diverse city in the late 80s/90s and my classmates were 50% ethnic minority, with majority Muslim girls. Not one wore a hijab or abaya. Everybody mixed, there was no talk of religion as being part of their central identity, no special rooms for prayers or halal meat being served in the canteen... Friendships were formed over pop music or films or books, normal teenage western stuff. Religious practices were strictly left at home and the focus was on finding commonalities amongst our peers, regardless of ethnicity. Things have changed dramatically over the last thirty years and I don't think for the better. There is now no need for ' integration 'when seemingly cultures can just live side by side and the emphasis has shifted to ' tolerance ' rather than embracing the shared western values of our society. All it serves is to create a more isolated, divided britain.

This is not integration. This is forced assimilation. People did not wear what they felt comfortable in out of fear of being excluded from society.

I had a very similar experience growing up.

Interesting you see that as a negative- in my eyes the definition of integration is forced cultural assimilation. I think that is where a lot of the problem lie that we see the definition of integration completely differently

Do you see what PP describes as negative?
People mixing, not regarding religion as a central part of their identity, finding common interests regardless of ethnicity, leaving religious practices at home? School girls not wearing hijabs?

Exactly . It would be interesting to see what the pp thinks ' integration ' actually is. I suspect their interpretation will be something akin to ' tolerance ', which is a by word for segregated, separated communities. Society was far more harmonious and cohesive in the 90s!

I like being able to see people’s faces for safety reasons. With face masks worn by health professionals, you can still see their face and communicate.

I agree. A couple of people on this thread said that if face coverings were banned, some women wouldn’t be able to leave the house at all and therefore couldn’t integrate.
I see their point, but at the same time I don’t regard being able to leave the house fully covered as a sign of integration.

N X today

Seems Reform not wholly united on this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/05/zia-yusuf-quits-as-chair-of-reform-uk-after-new-mp-burqa-ban-row