Ban the burka?

[TalkToTheHand123]

Question asked in the commons today. Should it be banned?

That's because of oppressive religious based control though. The oppressive behaviour doesn't have to be part of that faith.

No, just something non-oppressive.

They must be wearing pjs underneath. I expect it to be banned in about 3 years once Labour are booted out.

Do women work wearing a burka? It’s not about hijabs.

I do see women in them but not anyone in a workplace. What do they do?

Britain has been too accepting and too welcoming towards a culture which neither welcomes or accepts any way but their own.

We, the British, need to stop being adaptable and hopeful. We have to stop changing our way of life and giving up our values.

Is the full face covering really a religious norm, when there are plenty of Muslim women who don’t wear it?
As for social cohesion, I see it as different groups of people attempting to reach a common ground, not different tribes existing next to each other with separate sets of rules and norms.
As an immigrant myself, I think it’s crucial to at least try to integrate into the host society, rather than threatening unrest if some of your cultural and/or religious customs are questioned and not fully accepted.

In lots of households up and down the country actually. Women of all ethnicities, religions and ages are in abusive relationships with domineering and coercive men. Men rape, sexually assault and murder women every day. It’s a societal issue but I suppose it’s harder to face that systemic problem, it’s easier to say let’s ban one item of clothing and that’s a box ticked for “women’s rights”.

In what way does what someone else is wearing change your way of life or mean giving up your values?

What are our values? Last time I checked the British values included individual liberty, respect and tolerance.

There's no reason to ban it in the UK except to appeal to the racists.

Half the people shouting for this don't know what a Burka is and confuse it with the headscarf worn by Muslim women.

It’s a tough one, in an ideal world people should be able to wear what they like but the burka doesn’t always fit in British society. I used to work in a bank and had to refuse to open accounts/ serve people wearing them as they refused to show their face for identification even when a private room away from men was offered. In these instances I had no idea who was trying to gain access to the accounts and the people who accompanied them would often get aggressive and start accusing racism because I couldn’t help.

there are certain places where it shouldn’t be allowed to be so unidentifiable.

How is someone who insists on full religious face covering “British cultured”? Someone can be born in a certain place and yet be raised according to the strict norms of an entirely different place.
I’m an immigrant, if I decided to raise my kids following the customs of my home country, I wouldn’t be insisting that these customs are now part of the UK culture.

Right, but other countries don’t have those values right? When people come to the UK from those countries they don’t suddenly adopt British values do they? they make use of those values to be allowed to bring their culture with them rather than being forced to accept the new culture of their adopted country.

Isn’t this why we are having these issues now as we have a big issue of multiple cultures within British culture. As the population balance changes, those values will eventually disappear. The fact is now we have restricted free speech which we didn’t have before which shows that we are already starting to lose liberty and tolerance.

I don’t know where I stand on the issue at hand tbh, I’m a bit torn but I do definitely think we should be having more open debate about these things without accusations of racism, far right etc.

Weird that some of the comments are disappearing. The post I was replying to and mine have disappeared but there was nothing offensive in my comment.
Why is it offensive to MN to say that the burka is clearly a choice considering the vast majority of Muslims in the UK don’t wear it? It that it’s unfortunate that Muslim women and white British women are in controlling and abusive relationships?

How does that work when we import people who don’t hold those values? How do we make incomers respect our values? We barely seem to be able to make them learn our language. We can’t make them respect our treatment of animals, for example by allowing halal (I’m not saying our treatment is perfect, by any means, btw). We have a woman recently elected in northern England who made her first speech not in English saying she represented Pakistan!

Hijab/turban/kippah are not the same as full face covering though.
Tbh, when someone’s insisting on the latter, I do wonder how bothered they really are about integrating and participating in wider society.

Should people who join adopt those values for each other? Ie men to women and religious clothing

Are you saying Halal slaughter and niqabs are part of indigenous British practice?

They have become so.

What are our values? Last time I checked the British values included individual liberty, respect and tolerance.

This is below. Do you think a burka encompasses those things?

“Indigenous” though? Can you just introduce cultural norms from elsewhere to your host country and claim they’re “indigenous” a few decades later?

No, these practices are not indigenous to Britain.

I always find this difficult. I can kind of get in theory that there’s space for everyone and banning clothing is not within British cultural tradition.

The issue is that my actual experience of living in parallel in the same area with women who do wear such clothing as a woman who didn’t was in practice a bad one. I could tolerate it, but that did not mean I liked it, or that the men who certainly did enforce it on women and little girls were pleasant. They were not. They were demanding, misogynistic and leveraged their religion.

It is that last one that stays with me. These men were pigs to me and my friends, but that was because in their eyes we were not Muslim and not modest. I ended up moving.

Just to add, some men also force 'their' women (women are often seen as property) to wear revealing clothes too.

They are two sides of the same coin.

I think that's a fairly accurate description of how 'indigenous' practices arise.