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Politics

Call to Birmingham to Stand Against Fascism

63 replies

BisiBodi · 14/05/2025 11:53

This Saturday, fascist Britain First are planning to come to Birmingham, one of the UK’s most diverse cities, to call for mass deportations of immigrants. They have told their supporters that they will not be visiting "the bad, multicultural areas of Birmingham". Instead, they will be in the City Centre.

Shamefully, the police have made the decision to allow them to march to Victoria Square, Birmingham’s most iconic and most central public space, where they will be allowed to have their rally. Furthermore, the police have told anti-racist activists in the city that anyone who wants to oppose the fascist march will be allowed to assemble but will not be permitted to march.

Across Europe the far right are growing in influence and Trump's re-election has boosted their confidence. Reform UK is starting to make significant electoral gains. Fascist groups like Britain First are emboldened by the mainstreaming of racist and bigoted narratives against immigrants, Muslims and LGBT+ people. This is why they have chosen to march in Birmingham.

Kier Starmer has now added to the avalanche of vile racist rhetoric that blames immigrants for society's problems rather than the billionaires and politicians who have created the chaos.

If you live in Birmingham, or are close to Birmingham, then consider joining our united and peaceful protest.
Let's show 'Britain First' that Birmingham is a multicultural city.
Let's stand together against hatred and bigotry.

Call to Birmingham to Stand Against Fascism
OP posts:
Clavinova · 14/05/2025 13:36

As an aside, I remember reading (in the link) that 'none of the major party leaders visited Birmingham during the election campaign' last year.

Likely linked to campaigns of intimidation and harassment in Birmingham by pro-Palestinian supporters;

Jess Phillips spoke of party workers being filmed in the street and making regular calls to police, while Shabana Mahmood said masked men had disrupted a community meeting, "terrifying" people in attendance.

police officers lined the stage as she spoke

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ng3j1pnpqo

Also, it was Birmingham where the Sky News reporter was forced off air;

Masked thugs surround Sky News reporter and slash van tyres with knife during live report.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/uk-riots-birmingham-sky-news-reporter-thugs-b2591654.html

inkognitha · 14/05/2025 13:38

And a foreign one to boot 😂😂😂

So far, only thing that makes them fascists in the eyes of the intellectual luminaries on this thread is « xenophobia » and « Islamophobia »

point 1/ that makes A LOT of ppl fascists

point 2/ fascism views about races were quite different from what lefties call « racism » and how people feel about migration and immigration today (very few ppl in the UK have racialist views of a superior race, a lot of people have strong objections against the volume of migration and the lack of integration, but the left can’t have this said out loud)

point 3/ Islamophobia was not a problem or a political cause in the 30s, totally anachronistic and inaccurate.

Anything more substantiated than this drivel, send it my way

MiloMinderbinder925 · 14/05/2025 13:38

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Everyone but Muslims?

BisiBodi · 14/05/2025 13:58

Raptorteacher · 14/05/2025 12:58

Do you know I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the lady made a fascinating point that I’d not really considered before. She said (along the lines of, can’t remember to direct quote nor want to misrepresent) multi ethnic societies are good and a nice thing to aspire to - people from all different ethnicities come together to live in a particular way, all as equals, common goals living successfully, lovely.

However multicultural society has been proven over and over again not to work. Groups pushed together sharing resource and land area whilst keeping their own ideals and beliefs which don’t marry and often conflict with their neighbours, inevitably creating tension as each culture competes to put their own first. They ultimately become unmanageable and lawless, as the original law of the land cannot be applied equally due to cultural differences. Each side gives negative labels to the other, extreme and provocative behaviours escalate until war erupts and one side ‘wins’ and takes over.

This post reminds me of that, you are saying these protestors are fascists but are they? Are you really the fascist for wanting to shut them down from voicing their opinions? Why are their views lesser than yours? Do you have evidence for the collective defamatory labels you have given them or are you deliberately trying to provoke negative response to escalate hostilities? Aren’t all these marches and protests popping up everywhere just an inevitable consequence of the failure of multiculturalism repeating history yet again? Found it very interesting.

Ok, rather a lot to unpack here - and my time is very limited - but let me try to address some of the points which are, I think, perhaps falling a little short in their current state.

Firstly, the label of fascist/neo-fascist group applied to Britain First is a near-universal one. Have all these people, from official bodies to journalistic outputs, all collectively descended to the level on an internet chat forum and decided to label anyone who disagrees with them as Hitler's fanboys? Of course not. Only the terminally bereft of critical thinking would believe that.
Rather, the label is a direct response to the ideologies, self-proclaimed ideologies I should add, espoused by this group. They are quite simply, by every reasonable measure, a hate group who follow neo-fascist ideologies. That's neo-fascist, not old school fascist, as they do not - to the best of my knowledge - also believe the democratic state should be dismantled.

Secondly, I'm afraid I must refine the statement "However multicultural society has been proven over and over again not to work" to "Some multicultural societies, in certain circumstances, are sometimes unsustainable".

In point of fact, I'd suggest that not only have multicultural societies not failed in a historical context, but they have thrived.
Almost every nation on earth, including the people of the same fair Albion isles that members of these hate groups suggest should always be first in the queue based on a misunderstood notion of 'purity', has come about precisely because of multiculturalism.

Put simply, our nation today - such as it is - is stronger for migration and multiculturalism and not weaker, despite the hysterical screeching of the likes of Mr Farage and the Daily Mail.

Finally, if I can address a few points from the last paragraph; specifically "Why are their views lesser than yours? Do you have evidence for the collective defamatory labels you have given them or are you deliberately trying to provoke negative response to escalate hostilities?"

On the first point, I'm not sure it is stated that any view at odds with yours are "lesser", rather, that those who hold views which - in this case - espouse respect and inclusivity for cultures different to their own reserve the right to gather and oppose those who preach a rhetoric against those values.

On the second point, the question is backwards. If a statement is made, in this case the statement that Britain First are a known hate group with fascist/neo-fascist ideologies and an intolerance toward people they consider as unworthy, then it is up to detractors to disprove it.
It's a little like the old argument of the Creationist demanding evidence for the Theory of Evolution or they will continue to subscribe to their, very clearly batshit, idea of the world. The onus of responsibility rests on you to disprove.

In my specific case, I'm perfectly comfortable with the evidence that backs up my statement, but I neither need - nor am inclined - to do people's homework for them.

There is a considerable more to be said on this subject but, alas, I'm out of time.

OP posts:
Lolapusht · 14/05/2025 19:17

TheQuickRobin · 14/05/2025 12:35

I hadn’t been aware of that. I can only think of a few majority jewish areas and can’t think of marches through them? Though may have missed but i wouldn’t have thought that would be allowed?

Has happened quite a lot. Swiss Cottage, Southend, Brighton…

Brighton is particularly lovely. Heidi Bachram is married to one of the deceased hostage’s cousin. They have a book of remembrance and a memorial that is routinely destroyed. Marches have chosen a route to go past the area that isn’t in the city centre nor is it in a position that would be an obvious route for a march.

It’s deliberate.

Have a pro-Palestine march but how about avoiding Jewish areas and synagogues (particularly when timed so people are coming out of services)?

Lolapusht · 15/05/2025 10:31

As a follow up…the memorial in Brighton has been destroyed over 40 times and was destroyed again this week

https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1922709343641681949?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ]]

https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1922709343641681949?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ%5D%5D

EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 09:47

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inkognitha · 16/05/2025 11:17

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That they’re slinging the term fascists without understanding its meaning and without bothering to support it with facts? I happily double down

i m not talking about what the BFP is, I m talking about the low-info, low-reasoning propaganda parroting you call taking part in a debate

Jasmin71 · 16/05/2025 12:24

Britain First are basically the watered down wing of National Action which is now a proscribed organisation with fascist ideology in it's bones. Mostly filled up with ex Combat 18 thugs, encouraging hate in this new generation of idiots.

There you go !

EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 12:44

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EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 12:46

Jasmin71 · 16/05/2025 12:24

Britain First are basically the watered down wing of National Action which is now a proscribed organisation with fascist ideology in it's bones. Mostly filled up with ex Combat 18 thugs, encouraging hate in this new generation of idiots.

There you go !

Yup. We can all carry out basic research and see Britain First for what they are. @inkognitha, not so much!

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 12:48

At least someone knows something or has had the standards to collect some basic facts first before virtue signalling their outrage, thank you.

It shouldn’t take 5 pages of comments.

And fascism is not a mix of racism and Islamophobia, that is a misuse of the word coming from lack of rigorous thinking and respect for truth and history.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 12:58

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 12:48

At least someone knows something or has had the standards to collect some basic facts first before virtue signalling their outrage, thank you.

It shouldn’t take 5 pages of comments.

And fascism is not a mix of racism and Islamophobia, that is a misuse of the word coming from lack of rigorous thinking and respect for truth and history.

Could you explain why you support them?

EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 13:29

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 12:48

At least someone knows something or has had the standards to collect some basic facts first before virtue signalling their outrage, thank you.

It shouldn’t take 5 pages of comments.

And fascism is not a mix of racism and Islamophobia, that is a misuse of the word coming from lack of rigorous thinking and respect for truth and history.

But didn't the OP and others make it clear? And the Op said this "They are quite simply, by every reasonable measure, a hate group who follow neo-fascist ideologies. That's neo-fascist, not old school fascist, as they do not - to the best of my knowledge - also believe the democratic state should be dismantled."

Yet you continue to double-down on the attitude 'they are not fascists because they are not actual German Nazis' without actually bothering to read or, what's much more embarrassing for you, understand what's been said to you.

It seems more and more to us as though you are pro-Britain First, but have enough intelligence to know that position cannot be defended.
Like I said before, I think we all have the measure of you.

EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 13:30

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 12:58

Could you explain why you support them?

I was wondering the same thing. If our suspicions are correct and they do support fascist groups, they really need to tell us why they take that line.

SlipperyLizard · 16/05/2025 13:44

I couldn’t have politics further from Britain First, and wish nothing but failure on them, but as someone who regularly sees women described as “fascists” simply for asserting that sex is real, immutable and matters in some situations, I share the scepticism of @inkognitha at the word being bandied around just because you don’t like what they stand for.

Opendemocracy.net’s opinion is that they are not fascist, as they do not meet key criteria for that label.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/mythbusting-britain-first-5-things-you-need-to-know/

Also, the idea that the correct way round is to call someone a fascist and then anyone who disagrees has to prove they aren’t would certainly raise some eyebrows in a defamation hearing where “truth” is an absolute defence, but it is for the person accused of defamation to prove it is true.

If we throw the label “fascist” around without truly understanding what it means, we undermine our ability to identify and combat actual fascists.

Again, I wish nothing but failure on Britain First.

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 13:53

Never said anywhere I am supporting them, I have just been asking why they were called "fascists", because that's an easy cop out, a Goodwin argument to shut the debate. They are a lot of things I don't like (I read their website, all it takes), and I truly wish some of you would have pointed these things out so we could have had a real debate.

The lack of reasoning and critical thinking, the groupthink, the hounding and pressure, the disregard for democracy (because, like it or not, the BFP is recognised by the electoral commission, they have every right to take part to the political debate) and free expression, the clear intent to loudly occupy the streets at any opportunity (Gaza marches) and quash dissent (counter-protests like this one and for TR marches), not respecting the rule of the law by organising into self-defense groups (the riots), well, if one day you bother to open a book about how it started in Germany in 1933 ... you could see similarities.

It's not because intentions are good (and I am sure they are) that it is ok to go so low.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 14:03

@inkognitha

if one day you bother to open a book about how it started in Germany in 1933 ...

What do you mean by this?

Goldenbear · 16/05/2025 14:27

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 13:53

Never said anywhere I am supporting them, I have just been asking why they were called "fascists", because that's an easy cop out, a Goodwin argument to shut the debate. They are a lot of things I don't like (I read their website, all it takes), and I truly wish some of you would have pointed these things out so we could have had a real debate.

The lack of reasoning and critical thinking, the groupthink, the hounding and pressure, the disregard for democracy (because, like it or not, the BFP is recognised by the electoral commission, they have every right to take part to the political debate) and free expression, the clear intent to loudly occupy the streets at any opportunity (Gaza marches) and quash dissent (counter-protests like this one and for TR marches), not respecting the rule of the law by organising into self-defense groups (the riots), well, if one day you bother to open a book about how it started in Germany in 1933 ... you could see similarities.

It's not because intentions are good (and I am sure they are) that it is ok to go so low.

If you would bother to open a book about 1933 Germany, you would know that the Great Depression was the main reason for the Nazis rise to power. Hitler took advantage of the high unemployment rate and weak economy. He also had the support of a media Tycoon, Hugenburg, who helped to spread his propaganda.

Does anyone of this sound familiar.

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 14:41

I am not going to explain my point further, my contribution is over.

Facts/honest opinions? Very few and shallow. @Goldenbear you know a thing or two about Germany in the 30s, but they have little to do with what I am saying.

List of shutdown tactics used in this thread (not exhaustive) : Godwin argument, scaremongering, slander, faux concern, group pressure, faux naivety, weaponised intellectual incompetence and table turning.

Without even going into the matter of the argument (racism, BFP, etc.), how can you be surprised people don't trust or like you anymore?

It doesn't matter what the goals are, it feels nasty, domineering and ignorant.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 14:44

@inkognitha

I am not going to explain my point further, my contribution is over.

That's a shame, it was just getting interesting.

Jasmin71 · 16/05/2025 14:49

EvolutionistAmongCreationists · 16/05/2025 12:46

Yup. We can all carry out basic research and see Britain First for what they are. @inkognitha, not so much!

I've known about these nasty bastards since the 1980s. You live long enough you can spot them a mile away however patriotic a name the currently give themselves.

Goldenbear · 16/05/2025 14:55

inkognitha · 16/05/2025 14:41

I am not going to explain my point further, my contribution is over.

Facts/honest opinions? Very few and shallow. @Goldenbear you know a thing or two about Germany in the 30s, but they have little to do with what I am saying.

List of shutdown tactics used in this thread (not exhaustive) : Godwin argument, scaremongering, slander, faux concern, group pressure, faux naivety, weaponised intellectual incompetence and table turning.

Without even going into the matter of the argument (racism, BFP, etc.), how can you be surprised people don't trust or like you anymore?

It doesn't matter what the goals are, it feels nasty, domineering and ignorant.

But if you are going to reference 1933 Germany, it is entirely relevant.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 15:00

Goldenbear · 16/05/2025 14:55

But if you are going to reference 1933 Germany, it is entirely relevant.

I'm puzzled. Is the poster saying that the counter protest is like Germany? Are the counter protestors the fascists here? Who is table tipping? Am I faux naive or is the BF supporter?

Goldenbear · 16/05/2025 15:04

MiloMinderbinder925 · 16/05/2025 15:00

I'm puzzled. Is the poster saying that the counter protest is like Germany? Are the counter protestors the fascists here? Who is table tipping? Am I faux naive or is the BF supporter?

Yes, it is confusing but I suppose we will never know if the poster doesn't return!

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