Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

And what does that look like in your eyes?

Stopping a boat launched in France is extremely difficult to do humanely.

Chris Philp has some interesting thought!

Once here, they are pretty much here for good, eventually, even if refused asylum, many cannot be deported, either because we have no returns agreements/don't know country of origin/their country is at war & its too dangerous to fly back.

As much as we might all be horrified at the costs of hotels, its probably better than having them sleeping rough in parks etc etc.

It is across the EU you’re right but not every country will see the same. Aus put in place policies decades ago.

The political question for the voters is more does this require cross European collaboration to handle best and local stringent policies VS do you believe the country can really handle this alone a la Farage’s suggestion. I highly doubt it.

Depends if collaboration gives any results before the GE.

There already is a lot and numbers are going up so I guess we’ll see.

Yep 100%

Unless we get the EU on side, we can do nothing, going on about Aus is pointless, the UK doesn't have an empty pacific island handily available that can take ALL migrants.

Sunak could never enact Rwanda, the deal was just for a few 100 migrants per year, so about ONE days worth, some deterrent! if he could, he would have and probably won the GE.

GDP growth up today, above expectation, that can only be good for Starmer and Reeves.

I think he’s doing surprisingly well, actually. Though admittedly I’m not a Labour-voter (certainly not Reform either).

Again. Aus numbers are very low to zero. You don’t need a lot of room.

Starmer will though if he sets up hubs in Albania as proposed today. It’ll cost a fortune and be overwhelmed as it’s failed asylum seekers only.

We can’t afford to recruit more immigration officers either. There’s no money.

Where do you suggest we send ALL asylum seekers here and ones yet to come?

Unless its all or the vast majority, numbers will still cross.

Why was cost no issue with Rwanda?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/januarytomarch2025

Good news isn't it? though i doubt the Tory media will report it at all.

So much for Reeves jobs tax and recession - i do feel sorry for the Tories on here, they must be going through hell right now.

The Rachel from Accounts jibes seems to have stopped.

😬 at some of these posts. Shame Starmer wobbled and told everyone to care about ‘money in their pockets’ as prices go up again.

Well it’s in the Telegraph which usually does have reasonable economic coverage. Two quarters please UK!

Very good news. Obviously one swallow doesn’t make a summer but if it becomes an ongoing trend it’s definitely a positive - and a fulfilled manifesto promise.

I meant the wider read readership, Mail Express Sun... hope i'm wrong and it is given prominence in their printed additions tomo.

Not too many Telegraph readers will be voting Reform.

I’m sure you are right. I would not expect the Mail to cover it

I don’t really think it matters how much coverage it gets in the mainstream media. The thing that will make a difference is when people start feeling better off and that’s a way down the line. Green shoots are cheering though.

I don't agree with the op at all.
The worries people have in my area are the hotels full of illegal immigrants - young men- hanging about with no skills or speaking English. They don't want to integrate or get a job in a care home.

A job in care home is to me a specialist job needing patience, tolerance and compassion, culture and language. Trained, educated.

A local primary has more than 20% children with no language skills, no money for extra tas so it's really now just shit childcare as teachers are overwhelmed and can't teach.

Universities may have foreign students, but there extended families are entitled to visas and accommodation, benefits or maybe that's stopped now.

Charity begins at home. It's lovely to have the money and means to help others, but not at the detriment of your own family for their lifetime and future. Our ducks in this country are not in a row.

This could be applied to the state of the education system, housing, NHS, jobs, policing, prisons, benefits, councils, cost of living.

We need ID cards and regular checks and a system that actually works.

In a small point, it is GDP per capita that matters, not GDP.

If (as an extreme example) you double your population and GDP increase 50%, on average people are 25% poorer, and living in more crowded conditions.

How was it allowed to happen?

Germany are pretty good on these types of systems but they struggle with undocumented migrants to about the same extent.

The ID cards were on the table 25 years ago. Just like Government has known for over 25 years that to get to net zero you need the grid upgraded and nuclear to stabilise it. But successive Governments just ignore all the advice for short term views to get votes. It is always the same story.

May as well just give the country up then.

The state of the NHS and the CoL are notcompletely separate from the immigration crisis.