Scared about a poll I read where Reform wins outright in First Past the Post????

[fixingmylife]

I guess we are years away from a General Election, but I am scared about the rise in populism and the seemingly popular Reform. I think it would be unthinkable to have Farage as our Prime Minister. I don't want a small state, private NHS, racist far right populist, Trumpist in charge of the country.

I know MN is generally fairly anti Reform, Brexit etc, but where are all these Reform voters. I don't know anyone personally who has admitted they would vote for them? Is it the all the disenfranchised young men?

Have Copied and pasted. It’s rather long.
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/07/how-nigel-farage-backed-french-healthcare-system-could-work/

He said that in France “those who can afford it through their taxes pay into an insurance scheme”, while “those that can’t afford it, don’t pay in, so it’s for the mutual benefit of everybody.”

In France all residents must have some form of health insurance, whether state or private. The state system covers everyone regardless of income level or employment status. If your household income is below a certain threshold, you may be eligible for free health insurance coverage.
Healthcare in France is partly funded through social security contributions. Employees paid 7 per cent of their salary toward health coverage in 2023, while employers paid 13 per cent.
Medical treatment and tests are partially paid for by the government, but the patient is responsible for the remaining amount depending on the treatment.

French state health insurance covers 70–100 per cent of treatments such as doctor visits and hospital stays. Low-income and long-term sick patients typically receive 100 per cent coverage.
Private services in the public domain
Many private doctors and specialists in France receive funding through the state insurance scheme, allowing them to provide services through the public healthcare system.
Those with public insurance can access most privately run hospitals but the price of privately run services are often higher.
This means that although your state health insurance covers the same percentage of costs, you may pay more for the portion that is not covered.
French residents may take out supplementary private health insurance to cover the remaining cost of treatments.
Private insurance also covers specialist treatment or complementary therapies which are not available through public healthcare.

That hybrid system is how the anti-woman Maggie Chapman is an MSP.

I would love to know the age range of Reform supporters on MN. If you are under about 55 and/or have children you care about I would say be cautious.

Reform's core vote is 60+ and it is the demographic it will need to keep happy if it wants to win a GE and stay in power. Don't be under the illusion that if you are not in that demographic you won't be thrown under the bus along with immigrants, the sick, the disabled, the unemployed etc.

Brexit fucked the younger generations in particular in many ways. A Reform government might do the same.

I’m well over 60 and don’t want to see my country thrown under the bus.

That doesn't say it's the model Reform wants to go with. Watch Farage's interview with Beth Rigby.

Same. I am early 60s.

The problem with this kind of preference falsification is that when enough people make a protest vote for a fringe party, thinking that that party won't get in, that party actually does get in and carries out all their fringe ideas.

Single Transferable Vote goes a long way towards solving this problem and the related problem of "anyone but Party X" tactical voting, which is another form of preference falsification.

The point of elections is to return a Parliament that reflects what the electorate want. FPTP inherently encourages preference falsification, so doesn't return Parliaments that are representative of the people, therefore it is broken.

People forget that the NHS is a very cheap way to provide healthcare, only slightly higher than the OECD mean per capita. In other countries, that cost is paid by the individual, rather than through general taxation as it is here. Nonetheless, that cost is paid.

Medical crises contribute to half of all home repossessions in the US. Healthcare bills contribute to that.

I voted for Reform because Farage is addressing issues that many people genuinely care about. That doesn’t make me a bad person in fact, most of my family and friends voted Reform as well. Many of those who supported Labour are now expressing regret, even if they hesitate to admit it openly. It’s becoming increasingly clear that Labour has caused more harm than the previous government, the Conservatives.

While I’m not a fan of Trump, I can understand why people voted for him... he sets out a plan and follows through on it. Just because people make a choice to vote, it doesn’t mean someone is right wing; we are all entitled to our own beliefs and views. It also reflects a broader frustration with traditional parties and ineffective leadership, particularly under Keir Starmer.

People want real change, and if voting Reform is what it takes to achieve that, then I fully support it

It’s becoming increasingly clear that Labour has caused more harm than the previous government, the Conservatives.

Did you manage to write that with a straight face?

I don't think he will be a good leader whether or not you like his policies.
He is absolutely a fantastic campaigner that is undeniable and who's very good at speeches as every campaign there needs to be but when it comes to making a hard decisions and doing the graft I think it will just have weak plans that will be tol simplistic and not based in reality. A bit like the edi policy for the councils and proudly announced they were going to implement them in Lincolnshire without knowing that they're actually weren't any EDI officers employed. It's actually quite embarrassing.

Well fucking over pensioners and hoping to do so for disabled people and ruining the jobs market isn’t a brilliant record for 10 months in office @blossomtoes.

People want real change, and if voting Reform is what it takes to achieve that, then I fully support it

They will get change. But perhaps not the change they hope for. Farage said Brexit would make life better. It hasn't.

Farage is a snake oil salesman. I can't understand why people who bought his snake oil in 2016 would do so again.

I often wonder what would have happened if that plane crash had turned out differently. A real sliding doors moment, that was.

Labour are going after various groups already. Some on here might not be in them but others are hence the crumbling in support.

….and it is very far wide of the mark of what they promised when I voted for them. Liars. Wish I could take back my vote.

The one silver lining of a Reform victory is that the Reform voters would get what they deserve, and they would hag nobody to blame but themselves.

The downside is that everyone else would have to suffer as well.

I'm mid 40s and not a Reform voter but your point resonates with me as I don't understand why people posting on here pro- Reform don't understand that I don't know anybody who votes for Reform, where I live is the most secular City in the country so it doesn't have these divisions along race and religion in any meaningful way, it is pretty left wing, liberal as they come, pro- Europe, family wise, Londoners who are pro Europe, pro economy, diverse heritage in the family via marriage and so not suspicious of other countries and their intentions. My wedding was a few days after the Brexit Referendum and it completely put a downer on the day as I would say 99% of guests voted Remain so I do think I really don't know of any Reform voters. It isn't that shocking a concept.

Everyone can understand ‘wanting change’, being fed up of current policies, government, feeling, and some even being, actively disaffected by a current government.
However, choosing Reform, voting for private health (probably a US model), voting for economic change to help their buddies, voting for loss of Human Rights bills, and hard won equal rights - well I cannot understand that at all. It’s the epitome of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They will be a change, but a change very, very few will enjoy - though they’ll pretend they do, for as long as possible.
And btw, no they won’t stop immigration- their plans are unworkable. There’s also a similarity here with Brexit - people voted to leave with very different ideas individually as to what that would be - so will vote to address immigration with very different ideas as to what that looks like. The small boat ‘story’ and ‘blame game’ will also fall apart. They may lie about it all though - tbf there’s rarely an honest discussion about it, though I actually mean that quite differently to many people I think.

Thing is, they would do that. Same as with Brexit.

It looks like you’re not alone in feeling like that.

I thought Reform councillors were keen to slash SEND funding, that mindset doesn't really make me think they will be great for disabled people, what are they going to do for disabled people, they are all about going back to basics and the individual being King.

I thought this was a thread about the prospect of Reform winning a GE?

There are plenty of other threads to discuss Labour's failings. But perhaps some want to divert the discussion away from Reform's all too obvious weaknesses.

Net migration is currently going down in the U.K. But obviously Reform and it's acolytes and right wing news organisations don't want that to be highlighted.

Otherwise what have they got? Their whole modus operandi is fuelling hatred of others. Just like MAGA and of other populists around the world; now and historically.

Labour’s failings influence the outcome in the same way we had a change of gov at last GE. People vote against those in power as well as for.

They will not win in a vacuum.

Talking about the possibility of a Reform win means taking about how they could get there, and that’s Labour’s failings.