Reform party

[TalkToTheHand123]

Will Reform win any votes at the local elections?

100% but the policies of Hitler were batshit, as was Brexit or those of Trump....

The Tories were clearly running the UK into the ground, yet people did and still do back all they do & say

The Tory party and their supporters are bonkers if they think Labour are the enemy, the danger to the very existence of the Cons is from Reform & people like Jenrick...

Just as the newly formed Labour party ended the Liberals as a main force in the 20's.

@Alexandra2001

The Tories were clearly running the UK into the ground, yet people did and still do back all they do & say

IMO it's because our press is predominantly very right wing and owned by a few billionaires.

Social media is run by a few billionaires and very right wing.

Where are people getting a balanced view from?

Farage does come with baggage, he's been around since the 90s and instigated Brexit. He was an MEP for years.

How many of these lovely local candidates have dodgy racist views or aren't we concerned about character anymore?

The country has always been more right wing. Understandably more with immigation policy incompetence.

Easiest way, just blame immigrants

That again maybe true but if you re correct, then the electorate are stupid...

MEPs? who took any notice of them?

No, character doesn't matter, Bojo got huge support from his party and from women, yet he screwed his way through his partners as if they were garbage, how many kids? how many mothers? sacked twice for lying too.

I argued on here that if any of us knew a man like this, we'd run a mile, yet i was repeatedly told "It doesn't matter"

Like Trump, Farage's many character defects are ignored.

I don't expect things will be better if Reform get a few seats and a bit of power locally. But I don't expect things to be better with any of the other parties either. What they need is a kick up the arse to change their ways. If they get spooked by the popularity of Reform, then that's a win! Like Brexit, a vote for Reform is another way of a protest vote AGAINST the current main parties because more and more people are fed up of two cheeks of the same arse.

It's easy to hide behind 'protest vote' isn't it. Rather than to admit you agree with quite a few Reform policies.

Protest votes tend to harm the very people most disadvantaged, it wont be a win if Reform gain power.

On your wider point, did Brexit give any party a "kick up the arse" ?

The same incompetents are still there.

Brexit is the biggest act of self harm ever, only beaten by the US voting for Trump but at least Trump will be done in 2 years, mid terms or at the latest, 4 years.... Brexit is here for good or at least decades.

Reform have zero idea on how to reduce x channel migration ALL their plans involve causing huge rows with the EU/France... one of the latest i read about was putting UK Marines on the beaches in France....

Angry at Labour's welfare cuts? Let's show them by voting for a party who thinks they don't go far enough

No it's not a win. You don't seem to have noticed that politics is moving further right because of Farage. He has moved the Overton window and Labour are using the same dehumanising language.

Starmer was asked to tone down his rhetoric on immigration and Cooper is using language like "illegals". This isn't a positive thing.

@Maitri108

"No it's not a win. You don't seem to have noticed that politics is moving further right because of Farage. He has moved the Overton window and Labour are using the same dehumanising language.

Starmer was asked to tone down his rhetoric on immigration and Cooper is using language like "illegals". This isn't a positive thing."

I agree with you that politics is moving further to the right globally but this is not due to Farage, we are seeing shifts to the right in France, Italy, Germany, US etc etc.

Farage is simply taking advantage of this and if it wasn't him then another politician/ new political party would be doing the same.

The question is why is this a more global phenomenon, where are the existing political parties failing to address public concerns/ wants and what can be done about it.

Labelling everyone who votes for Reform as racist, extreme right, fascist, thick, uneducated etc etc only increases their support.

And why don’t the people who have made it to France, or anywhere in Europe, stay and claim asylum there? Why are they willing to risk the cross to get here?

The English Language.

Also, UK doesn't have ID cards, most of Europe does. You show it when starting a new job, register for your hospital appointment, school etc.

I have no problem with it. I know where my taxes are going and know no terrorists are coming into the country.

@Alexandra2001

"Reform have zero idea on how to reduce x channel migration "

Going through Reform's policies there is a combination of zero thought on how to implement them and or zero costing or where the money would come from. But they do a good line in "sound bites" even if they are undeliverable and meaningless.

At the last election only the Green Party's policies (who don't care about the economy) were more underfunded than Reform.

@1dayatatime I didn't say that Farage was responsible for a global far right movement. I was talking about politics in the UK.

Politics has moved further right for several reasons. The power of the super rich; they own the press and social media. The failure of neoliberlism; people are a lot worse off and the disparity between rich and poor is always growing. Tolerance for the intolerable; the far right have been given platform. People voting for 'wild cards' because they're fed up of the status quo and lack of a left alternative.

Instead of trying to tackle the root cause of the far right and people like Farage, there's a race to the bottom to match him.

Immigration is being used as a scapegoat and to stoke division.

The question is why is this a more global phenomenon

I think two things have really accelerated the movement of people across the world;

Conflict in the ME, Africa and recently Israel and its neighbours. The 80s and 90s seemed much more peaceful that they have been recently, and it’s worth saying that the UK has had its fair share of involvement in a lot of these conflicts

And climate change, it’s getting impossible to survive in a lot countries esp in Africa. Again, the west and its overconsumption and pumping out carbon (jet travel, luxury lifestyles etc has played a big part in this.
There are others too,China/India growth I know)

If people have a choice between staying where you are and dying, or attempting to find a better life somewhere else, then people are going to migrate- they’ve often got no choice.

The 80s and 90s seemed much more peaceful that they have been recently,

Are you being serious @Lonelycrab ?

Just taking the first half of the 90s:

Iraq - Invasion of Kuwait and first Gulf War

Rwanda - Genocide - 800,000 dead in just 100 days. 800,000

Break up of Yugoslavia - Srebrenica ring any bells?

@Lonelycrab

"I think two things have really accelerated the movement of people across the world;"

An interesting example is the reasons why there has been an increase in migration from Vietnam recently.

Although under Communist Government, Vietnam is stable and economically growing. The key reason for the growth in emigration is "comparative poverty " where due to global social media the West appears to be "paved with gold" where everyone lives a prosperous life style. Plus there is pressure on young people to become wealthier in order to provide for other family members.

Comparison is the thief of happiness and social media allows young people in poorer countries to compare their lives to those in the West which encourages them to migrate. Unfortunately the reality of life in the West often doesn't live up to that portrayed in social media. There is then a reluctance to return home as "failures".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8y3l7e2vjo

@boys all of those are awful of course

But we’ve had many more since

Gulf war 2 (far less justified and larger than the first- this lead to the creation of isis)
Afghanistan
Syria
Libya
Sudan
Ukraine
Israel
….

All of these war zones (some sponsored by U.K. and other western govts), coupled with the tipping point effect climate change has, and still do contribute, unsurprisingly, to the mass movement of people in a way that your examples don’t imo.

Im just giving my thoughts as to why so many people are fleeing their homelands compared to several decades back.

Plenty of posters on MN encourage their children to leave the UK for a better life

There’s a difference between leaving because you want to and because you think it will be positive for ones future…

And leaving because the choice of staying might entail death or starvation. That is the decision many are facing in the world right now.

Do we help or turn our backs? This is the question for the next decade or two.

I agree with the PP about the “supposed” importance of Christianity. As an Atheist agnostic but spiritualist I don’t necessarily follow those teachings completely, but the point is good and valid, we as a country need compassion and understanding not division, hatred and selfish intolerance.

Jesus would weep if he could see what was happening in the US- many of those claiming to be Christians worshipping a false orange idol with hatred in their veins. The world is upside down.

It is still immigration. Ofcourse we all know it is a certain kind of immigrant Reform voters want to keep out.

They don't mean to go and get handouts from other countries though.

Neither do immigrants in this country as has been explained to you several times now.

@Lonelycrab

"Do we help or turn our backs? This is the question for the next decade or two. "

Actually I think the question is that if we do help then is there any limitation on the number of asylum seekers / economic migrants / legal migrants that the UK accepts.

Do we take in 10k, 100k or 1 million per year? Also for those seeking asylum how would you judge who most merits asylum - currently it's based on the ability to pay people smugglers to take you across the channel.

Since 2000 the UK population has increased by 10 million (or equivalent to a new London). In the last three years the numbers of migrants (mostly legal) coming into the country was 2.5 million (or equivalent to a new Birmingham or Manchester).

At the same time the infrastructure and services has not kept pace with these numbers meaning the roads, housing, healthcare, education system, water supply etc etc are as we can all see buckling under the current increased demand. The last water reservoir was built in 1992!

This is simply a question of numbers coming in and what the country is able to handle in terms of infrastructure and services.

Wait til reform get in and the electorate see what the stink eye looks like then.