So does "far right" mean you're concerned about the impacts of mass immigration?

[genesis92]

Cause I'm far right if so then!

Genuinely interested to hear what people consider as being "far right". I put it in quotation marks cause the term is so over-used incorrectly, it's actually lost all meaning.

How would those of you who say you are concerned about immigration propose it is managed? I have asked this twice already.

Would you cut work visas? - by far the biggest group of immigrants to come to the UK hold a work visa. Many fill labour shortages, e.g. in health and social care. And yes they bring dependents. You can’t expect to attract the calibre of skilled workers needed otherwise.

Some say, we should train more school leavers in shortage professions. Whilst I agree this should be part of the longer term plan, it will make taxes / prices rise and will take years. A surgeon is not trained in a few years!

Or maybe you’d like to cut the numbers of foreign students? The second largest group of immigrants. How will UK universities afford to train more domestic doctors and nurses without the hefty course fees from international students? Who are mostly here temporarily anyway.

You can’t reasonably stop people who are originally from the UK but have made another place their home, returning. They make up the third largest group of immigrants.

You could stop people coming across on small boats to claim asylum. But these represent less than 3% of immigrants overall, with a majority going on to attain refugee status and ending up working in useful roles.

What other options are there?

Good question.

First you are incorrect, the largest number are study visas. This is a well-known, and rather dubious route. Universities actively recruit huge numbers of people mainly from India and Nigeria who mainly want to come to the UK for an opportunity of settling. If they pay large fees they get a chance to turn their visa into an opportunity to work and settle. These study immigrants cost the UK more than they contribute. Twenty years ago UK higher education was able to train our own professionals without relying on fees from these 'pretend' students. Universities should go back to focusing on educating UK students not taking money from people who want to emigrate not be educated.

Second are work visas. That is very obvious, the UK should train and educate its own workers and not import people who a) would do much more good in their own countries b) are often not trained to the same standards and skills as in the UK c) cost tax-payers more than they pay in taxes. Most low-paid workers (care, food, services) are a large net cost to tax-payers as has been convincingly shown by studies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.

Third is family re-unification or chain migration. This should just be stopped. It obviously doesn't make sense that if one person comes and then they bring their six children and seven siblings and the seven siblings have six children each and they all get to come and then the six children's partners bring their parents and siblings....And if they come from Africa, the middle east or Asia they end up costing the taxpayer around one million USD over their life time as well as adding to pollution, congestion, housing shortage and decline in social capital.

I agree with you @MrsTerryPratchett but I do feel that we have ended up with Trump and Musk in the States (and possibly Farage for us) because the other side (Democrats) simply refuse to engage on issues that actually concern people.

And if people insist on having the conversation they are shut down as ignorant, far right etc.

It is very dangerous to have such intolerance. It creates vacuums that self serving arseholes will fill.

But isn't that like saying that most violent deaths are not MVAWG, so we must not mention men? That to do so is to distract from the broader issue.

In the child gang rape/torture/grooming case, 80% of perpetrators from six investigations were Pakistani heritage and 97% were Asian. (I haven't seen more extensive data on all 30+ towns that have had child gang rape cases and I stand to be corrected if you have and they show a very different picture.).

At that point, the person saying 'it's not a Pakistani problem' is like the person saying 'it's not a man problem'.

Of course not all men. Of course not all Pakistanis. But almost always men. Almost always Pakistanis.

On this particular issue, of course. But this particular issue is serious and particular enough to be taken on its own terms. To treat it otherwise seems to be pretty callous of the girls abused.

I agree. And the other distinguishing factor is of course that because the men were Pakistani, the police were more likely to turn a blind eye in case they were accused of Islamaphobia, which is presumably not a factor in their approach to general male violence and paedophilia.

That also seems very plausible to me.

Being called racist or Islamophobic is a pretty powerful slur, public sector bodies have a duty to promote good ethnic relations, and council members also need to avoid offending their electorate.

The girls are seen as unimportant and there’s a big political incentive not to rock the boat.

Terrible when it’s paedophilic Western sex predators in South East Asia, targeting Asian girls because they think they’ve got a green light and a free pass. Terrible when it’s Pakistani gang sex abusers in the UK, targeting White and Sikh girls because they think they’ve got a green light and a free pass. We shouldn’t be squeamish about discussing either.

We shouldn't be squeamish. But the Labour Party seem to be carrying out a cover-up which is extraordinary. It affects every city in this country and hundreds and thousands of children and has been going on for years. I don't agree with Elon Musk's support for Tommy Robinson etc but I do see the benefit in someone with such a vast reach as him as actually speaking up for the victims and saying what on earth is going on and who is taking responsibility? Keir Starmer should be leading this but is hiding as he was the one responsible for the failures.

One story told by the investigative journalist from the Times outlined a mother reporting that her 13 year old little girl was missing. The police did nothing. Someone then late in the night called the police as they heard screaming coming from next door to them (so must have been bad). The police attended and found two naked little girls who were drunk and seven adult Asian men.

The police arrested the child for being disorderly and she was convicted. The adult Asian men she was with weren't even questioned.

What evidence do you have that hundreds and thousands of girls have been effected and it's happening in every single city in the UK?

It was stated in the House of Lords that 250,000 white girls have been raped by Muslim grooming gangs in the last couple of decades. This was with referral to reports of Rotherham/Telford/Oxford etc.

The Chief Constable of Northumbria police also stated that these grooming gangs operate in every city in the UK. Everyone needs to be aware of this. It must not be swept under the carpet again by misguided people. That betrays the young victims.

Do you have a link to this figure? I find it hard to believe. I just Googled and saw an item on gov.uk that there had been approximately 4000 victims. This is, of course, 4000 victims too many.
There are more white grooming gangs than Asian so if 250,000 girls have been raped by Muslims alone in the UK, then the numbers of children raped by white grooming gangs must be in millions.

Yes, it was stated in the HOL with nothing to evidence it and cited as an extrapolation.

What evidence is there that grooming gangs are active in every city in the UK?

This article in the Telegraph (if its not behind a paywall) sums up where we are very well for those that care about the vulnerable children in this country. It's truly shocking although I suppose if thousands of young men come illegally from countries where women are treated like chattels and white girls are fair game it shouldn't be that surprising.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/04/grooming-gangs-scandal-cover-up-oldham-telford-rotherham/

As far as I'm aware the men involved were British, not asylum seekers.

We absolutely shouldn't shy away from examining the fact that these particular perpetrators were Pakistani or Asian. We need to look very closely at why the men from these groups were committing these very serious crimes.
We also need to bear in mind that these six investigations were looking at Asian grooming gangs so it's not surprising that 97% were Asian. The figures I've seen for grooming gangs in general in the UK is that around 85% of grooming gangs are white.

I think, as I've mention before, the main scandal is that while paedophiles can have any skin colour, the police and authorities shied away from prosecuting Asian perpetrators specifically in order not to risk community cohesion. Two tier policing.

And it carries on year after year with people trying to excuse the issue or brush it under the carpet rather than a proper investigation so we all know what's true and what isn't.

The left seem to be arguing either that white girls aren't worth protecting if it's at the expense of community cohesion or that Asian Muslim men are somehow "special" and should be allowed to crack on with their paedophilia whereas if it was anyone else in the country there would be uproar. Or both. People should be furious at this.

Ok. British Muslim Asian men. I don't think it makes a vast amount if difference. It's the culture that is relevant and the approach of the police.

You're one of those. All Muslims are [fill in the blank].

No. I'm someone who wants rapists and paedophiles to face the full force of the Law no matter what religion, culture or skin colour they may have. Why don't you as well? Is there something different about you?

Why not be honest? You've already stated that you don't like foreigners. You want universities to close rather than accept foreign students.

You've stated that it's part of Muslim culture to rape children. Now you're deflecting and trying to make out it's because you care about child abuse.

The grooming gangs scandal has been used for a very long time by Robinson and his ilk to drive racism and anti Muslim rhetoric. We've recently had anti Muslim riots driven by this kind of 'thinking'.

Now Musk is stirring it up, supporting Farage and Robinson and driving Islamaphobia. And here you are, quite by coincidence, parroting them.

The problem with taking your approach is that people see a problem but they aren't allowed to say out loud what the truth is. This makes the problem worse. You can twist what Ive said and make out I "don't like foreigners" despite being the child of an immigrant or that I have motives that I don't, if you think that's helpful, but ultimately it doesn't matter. Most people in this country according to polls think about the issues the same way I do. Its mainstream now. Fresh air is a good disinfectant.

These little girls have been ignored or actually punished for decades and the people that should have been protecting them were too fearful of being accused of Islamophobia to look after them. It's inverse racism against white children and needs to be investigated in the open. Read all the news today. Horrific. We can't hide from the truth to pander to community relations any more.

The thing is, I haven't heard of anyone arguing that the girls don't matter or that Asian men deserve special protection. Not one person. Have you really heard anyone say this? I'm left wing and feel that these girls matter very much, and the Asian perpetrators should rot in jail.
If the authorities were turning a blind eye to this to begin with, then it's scandalous. I don't know if it's true or just what's been reported. If it's true then it must never happen again abd people are right to be furious.
As for two-tier justice, I don't believe this. Have you looked at the sentences given to Asian peadophile rapists and compared them to the sentences given to white peadophile rapists?
I do see a difference in that the focus is very much on Asian grooming gangs and not white grooming gangs. The focus should be on all grooming gangs.

Read the papers today.

@username299

"So you're not talking about immigration, you're talking about asylum seekers.

Seeking asylum is not illegal, no matter how you get into the country. Asylum seekers are only about 2% of immigrants into the UK.

You want to prevent 2% of people and continue to take in 98%?"

You can clearly read from my post that my proposed way to reduce the population of the UK over time is simply to allow the low birth rate of 1.6 to be below the replacement rate of 2.1.

In order for this to work then legal migration needs to be significantly reduced. Legal migration is far far greater than illegal migration.

My point on illegal migration was simply that it was much harder to reduce because by definition it is illegal.

This has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with basic economics.

It is clear though you desperately want to steer the discussion towards illegal migration so that you can shout the far right / racist/ fascist [insert other buzzword] accusations.

Sorry I'm not falling for it - if you can't see that bringing in an additional 900k people to the UK in one year places a burden on infrastructure, the economy and society then you are placing ideology above reality.

There have been several investigations already into the grooming gangs and many men have been imprisoned, so it's factually incorrect to say they've been ignored.

My approach is firmly anti racism and tarring everyone with the same brush. There are approximately 4 million Muslims in the UK and they're not all paedophiles.

As I'm sure you're aware, white British men commit far more child sex offences. It's a scandal that these girls were ignored for so long but the men who committed these crimes were British, not immigrants.

I haven't twisted anything you've said, you've made yourself very clear. You said you don't want more foreigners in the UK, despite being descended from immigrants and would prefer universities to close than take in foreign students.

You also said that paedophilia is part of Muslim culture. I think using the abuse of children as an excuse to spread bile is reprehensible.

I don't think your approach works any more I'm afraid. The truth is coming out. I do think Keir will have to go.