Anyone else irritated by the media coverage of budget?

[flymetothemoo]

Clearly, if it was at all possible then Labour would want to spend billions / on public services, fixing everything. The fact that they are having to be so frugal is NOT what they would choose, politically or materially!

Clearly it's the last government's fault we are in this position. And yet Labour are the bad guys, according to the press, and even the BBC and the Guardian are contributing to this stoking of negativity and fear.

What are they supposed to do in terms of the budget?

They must find the money from somewhere. They've promised to protect working people, employees NI, income tax etc. So they have to find it from somewhere. It might be employers, or inheritance tax loopholes, or benefit loopholes.

They are damned if they do and if they don't aren't they?

@flymetothemoo I am fed up of the Labour Gmt leaking options to the media to test out how they will be received.

They didn’t need to flag it. Just not commit . The no tax rises for hard working people trope was their own invention and probably unnecessary

Now they are hamstrung by it

If that's what they are doing, do you think they'd make last-minute changes if they felt the leaked item/s were received badly? Perhaps chancellors do make last-minute decisions before budgets.

@upinaballoon yep. I am far to cynical to believe the media have made up all the options.

They fucked up the Winter Fuel
Allowance . Yes, it should be means tested but the cut off should have been higher I.e. £20-25k.

I am also deeply suspicious about the black hole and giving the public sector significant pay rises. I think the pay rises are, in most cases, fine but if there is a black hole can we afford it?.

Of course they do.

The markets have a significant impact on policy.

Yes, the elastic black hole.

22-40bn….

I feel very strongly that everyone should be aware of this.

I like @Noname99 's point that if you want Scandi style services then EVERYONE has to pay.
This is no answer to the initial post, but I think everyone in work should pay tax and NI. I would make it a tiny amount for the lowest paid. It gives everyone a stake in society. I don't care what colour tie or suit a chancellor is wearing. People shouldn't be lifted out of paying anything in. It is a diminishing sort of thing to do to another person, in my eyes.
As to being irritated by speculation before the budget, it would be very hard to say whether one set of TV channels and the newspapers are more critical of one party than another. If the irritation becomes unbearable I can avoid all papers and news bulletins until November 5th and just check BBC text, always assuming I believe what that says.

Edit to say something I'm not going to - unimportant.

How would you make the distinction between private and public sector, specifically those which are unionised.

You see the problem I hope.

Clearly it's the last government's fault we are in this position.

Everyone blames the last government. When the Tories got in it was Labour's fault that there was no money.

The problem is that the country can't afford all the services that people have come to expect and nobody can agree on what should be cut.

Taxes on working people are already reaching record levels. It's not fair when people are also struggling with high housing costs.

Taxes either need to come from the older generation (i.e. wealth tax), or we need to accept that we can't fund everything that we are currently funding.

Everyone already does pay. Social spending in the UK is virtually the same as Nordic countries. The question really, is what money is the being spent on?

I think that Nordic counties tend to have stricter criteria when it comes to claiming (for example not being able to claim unemployment benefits if you haven't contributed a certain amount). Healthcare is also not completely free.

Are you saying that it’s only the older generation that has wealth? I imagine a lot of people with incomes in the top couple of % with mortgage free houses would be rather surprised by that.

The skew is towards 55+

No question.

Yep, everyone bleats on about PPE, HS2 and Rwanda but the reality is that it's things like health and social care that are the game changers when it comes to public finances. It's the same with councils who are utterly crippled by the costs associated with SEN.

There are no easy compromises to be had. People have come to expect that they are entitled to provision that can cost an enormous amount of money. I am talking about £50k a year for one child to attend a specialist school or £1k for one night on a NICU intensive care ward. Most people are not net contributors to the taxation system and therefore these enormous costs are being covered by a minority of people that are becoming unwilling to pump more money into these bottomless pits. It will literally never be enough to fund everything that people in this country think they are entitled to. We need to start making some seriously tough decisions about what we as a country want to fund and how we can make this sustainable.

They (either party) simply daren't have a conversation about raising income taxes to get Swedish / Danish standard of services.

I would love to know what % of the population would be open to it, or even welcome it.

Agreed.

The truth is that its 1p increases like this that bring in the big money because we pretty much all pay. Its why they will stick with freezing allowances I reckon as its already sort of in place by the Tories, so won't be such a lower to.continue.

By saying the big collectors won't be changed now they have to play with other taxes far, far, more. Extra admin burden with some of those too.

Although I do agree with making capital tax rates more in line with earnings. Its only fair

Was it when Gordon Brown was Chancellor that extra money, called credits, were introduced to bump up the money of people already working?
Working tax credit? Is it a thing? Child tax credit?

Of course the wealth is primarily with the older cohort.

Im irritated that apparently "Cross-party MPs urge Reeves to impose 2% tax on wealth above £10m", reported in the Guardian today.

What an utterly pathetic amount.

Buckle up people.

Public sector net borrowing in September was the third highest for this month since records began in 1993.

Public sector pay rises….

Why are people speculating? It’s because we are worried and can’t currently plan.

We are worried because it’s increasingly clear that they are woefully ill-prepared for office and didn’t actually have a plan beyond winning the election.

We are worried because some of their ideas seem cruel / irrational/ ideological rather than research driven or evidence based. We are worried because they are reluctant to carry out impact assessments.

Labour said they wouldn’t increase taxes on ‘working people’ unfortunately their definition of what that means has proved to be very slippery.

They clearly don’t include employers as working people and don’t realise that increasing NI is literally a tax on working people.

Bizzarely they also don’t include the very wealthy who could afford to pay!!!

They don’t include anyone who might leave or receive an inheritance. And that includes many very ordinary working people.

They don’t include teachers in private schools (they actually want us to lose our jobs ffs! Whoever heard of a government trying to shut a successful sector of the economy because it is too good and not giving a fuck about the impacts on the workers. Sane governments try to support business and avoid job losses.)

And worried because they keep talking about a ‘black whole’ but seem happy to make it bigger!

Why are people speculating? It’s because we are worried and can’t currently plan.

And speculation and scaremongering help how?

@MNISLW

"Public sector pay rises…."

And higher interest rates on Government debt. The financial bailout from 2008 combined with £500 billion spent on Covid means that the debt to GDP is the highest since 1961.

Whats more the debt is now increasing at the fastest rate since Covid:

news.sky.com/story/government-borrowing-remains-at-highest-since-pandemic-13238553

Unless Rachel Reeves takes major action to cut spending and increase taxation then she really is going to have a Liz Truss moment.