I am a Labour voter, a Labour supporter and I do not regret my vote.

[CurlewKate]

However, I think that Starmer has been incredibly stupid and/or very badly advised over this expenses issue. He has done nothing wrong, but his behaviour is not what he led us to believe he would do, and I am incredibly exasperated and disappointed.

In my opinion, he should admit that he made a massive misjudgement, and agree to take no more freebies from now on.

Apart from anything else anything which allows people to say "They are all as bad as each other" (they aren't) is a distraction from the real issues the country faces. He should be laser focussed on repairing the damage caused by 14 years of Tory misrule. Not scrambling around dealing with peripheral stuff.
Starmer-say sorry. Don't do it again. And get back to work.

Fair enough. But - not hugely important - the “bastards” were the arch eurosceptics, not people who called him dull.

In any event, I don’t think attacks from within the Tory party about Major being drab were generally public mockery in the way that Labour’s were.

Whatever, how a politician presents to the voters does matter. It shouldn’t, or at least not as much as it does. But it does.

No not irrelevant. Of course, two wrongs don't make a right but the last lot set the morality bar ridiculously low. The pearl clutchers amongst us seem to have ridiculously short memories.

My objection (more to the earlier suggestion that I hope the country has a problem with our PM) is more that certain posters like to bring in the personal and make judgemental statements about other people's views. It's a technique I suppose but it runs through this thread.

Again..why do you need to bring in the rude comments. "Pearl clutchers". Just be straightforward and keep to the issues.

What bar is this? There’s no “I can be greedy, hypocritical and dishonest so long as I can say the others were worse” bar.

Nobody said there was. At least nobody can accuse Johnson of hypocrisy, he never made any pretence of being anything but venal.

CanterburyWhales said there was such a bar.

If you don't like being questioned, why take part in a debate?!

Stop twisting things. I said the previous lot set the bar very low. That doesn't excuse bad behaviour now but the shock of some posters comes over as contrived to suit their narrative as well as disingenuous. That was my point.

It’s a figure of speech. Such disingenuousness.

This

I enjoy a debate of course. I am happy for people to question me on issues as long as they aren't rude and don't presume what I think or my politics. It's far too Owen Jones to keep attacking people personally. Perhaps it's your unfortunate turn of phrase throughout this thread.

Now I'm attacking you personally! How rude and hypocritical of me. Luckily you will allow me to deploy the "Starmer Technique" and I will just draw a line under it and ask everyone to move along now.

No. It's dismissing other people's opinions as "pearl clutching" and is judgemental.

I’m really not twisting anything. The posts are all on display.

I really can’t see the point of referring to Johnson - who, as has been said, has many very bad faults but is hardly a hypocrite - except to try to minimise Starmer and Labour’s goody grabbing, dishonesty and appalling self-righteous hypocrisy.

How tedious these posts are. Get over yourself.

What a joke. Johnson is a liar and a cheat and a self-serving narcissist. And he was a total hypocrite telling everyone to stay at home and partying and flouting his own rules.

OK, but in what way is that relevant to Starmer’s venality, hypocrisy and porkie pie habits?

On your argument Johnson should be viewed as not so bad really, since we can apparently compare politicians’ transgressions and cancel them out like two sides of an equation.

Your posts repeatedly miss the points being made. Sorry, I'm out of patience.

Ah the irony. You are accusing posters of being aggressive and judgmental and you don't think that in itself is aggressive and judgemental. I give up.

Let's just agree that all our politicians should do /be better. Tory or Labour, we need better quality elected representatives. By comparing the current Labour Government to the last Tory one, we are doing ourselves a disservice. I want better, I want integrity, I want vision and talent. I don't want whataboutery, freebies, snouts in the trough, name calling, perpetual disappointment. Just a Government I can trust to do the right thing for the electorate.

No, I think you’ve run out of any sensible argument.

As I previously posted, I am being very hypocritical aren't I. But to get out of it, I simply deploy the Starmer Techique and say move along everyone theres nothing to see here and I draw a line under it.

There's one rule for me, you see, and one rule for you.

I don't think you had any in the first place.

🙄