Labour

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

No questions the Tories were bad, but Labour are on another level.

Are you still happy you voted them in? Be honest now, you are having your doubts aren’t you?

If not, you really should be.

We've also had 20-30 years of politicians sending the "message" that paying less tax (or no tax) is something to be celebrated.

I.e. the ever increasing limits on tax free ISA.

The relatively recent tax free amounts for dividends, interest, etc. The lower tax free threshold for "gig" economy such as renting a garage or a bit of freelance work.

Then we had Gordon Brown introducing a 10% basic rate tax band and a 0% small company tax band.

Tax efficient investments such as venture capital trusts and enterprise incentive schemes giving not income income tax relief but capital gains tax relief too.

Then the political footballs of increasing/decreasing basic rate income tax, corporation tax rates, higher rates of tax, etc.

Politicians (of ALL colours) have happily encouraged tax-saving behaviour for 20-30 years and sending a message that they should be celebrated for reducing peoples' tax. It's completely the WRONG message to send when we need people working and paying tax on both their wages and savings/investments.

(Of course, it's all smoke and mirrors because we're more taxed now than we've ever been, due to the never ending increases in indirect taxes (VAT, fuel duty, gaming, tobacco and alcohol duties, VAT on heating, insurance premium tax, etc etc).

That's Neoliberalism; low taxes, small state.

What's interesting about the Nordic countries is their attitude. The government are cost effective and efficient at spending tax payers money and people see the benefits in public services. And there is a lot of trust.

People also feel a sense of collective responsibility and community and want to contribute to the common good.

It's the complete opposite to the neoliberalism of Thatcher onwards, where there's no such thing as society.

I suspect an awful lot of people want great public services on the cheap somehow 🤦‍♀️

I think they're doing a good job so far and am very happy they won the election.

I hope the Tories never, ever get into power again. They ruined the country.

I didn't vote for them, but like others I hoped they would be OK and felt like they should be given a chance. But they've been in power 5 minutes and have implemented (or will be implementing) some truly horrifying things. All Starmer can say is '22 billion black hole' on repeat, like a parrot. I feel sorry for Labour voters who voted in good faith.

It also impacts me that the previous Government frozen the tax freshhold. I am the main breadwinner in my family and I didn't appreciate being dragged into the 40% tax bracket last year. I don't consider myself a high earner, certainly not in London. It costs me over £10 a day to get to and from work. Some people really think middle class people like me should support everyone financially including millionaire pensioners. I think Labour is going great sprinkling the pain evenly. They refused to lift the ban on benefits for the 3rd child. Pensioners seemly have too much time on their hands to complain

Horrifying? What horrifying plans are in the pipeline?

My favourite stat..... 10 out of 215 trusts account for 50% of treatment backlogs. How about the government focuses on these poorly performing trusts, and the demographic they serve.

Where reforms have already been made, diagnostic centers, pharmacy first, elderly treatment hubs, performance is already improving.

All of the NHS issues in Darzys report today were already known, acknowledged, and being worked on. Labour however, because you know Labour, are likely to be able to be more radical though, as they are not seen as an enemy of the NHS. Hence the statement of no more money, but better performance.

That’s true and I’d love to live in a country like that. Unfortunately my links with Norway, Sweden and Finland tell me that it’s changing there, too. But I’d still rather live in a country that has their values

Politicians (of ALL colours) have happily encouraged tax-saving behaviour for 20-30 years and sending a message that they should be celebrated for reducing peoples' tax. It's completely the WRONG message to send when we need people working and paying tax on both their wages and savings/investments.

If taxes are high, the black economy gets bigger, see Italy and other S European countries.

Also the UK govts (of all colours) send completely the wrong message by pissing billions of our taxes up the wall (eg HS2) and then needlessly antagonising people by pretending the £1.3 bn annual saving from axeing the winter fuel allowance is going to make the blindest bit of difference when billions continue to be squandered elsewhere

The Labour party looks like a bunch of tossers tinkering with things they have no idea how to fix.

Cue 47 posters saying at least Labour are better than the Tories, without actually being able to cite 1 solid, viable Labour plan for digging us out of the hole.

Happy to be proved wrong though.

Yes. The economy is in a mess, they are hostage to Tory budget promises, I wasn't expecting better economically. And almost every thing you mention is media fantasy.

If their manifesto isn't enough, then I'm not really sure what to suggest. They've only been in government for a couple of months and have yet to lay out their plans in the budget so apart from the manifesto, no one knows what their plans are.

I didn’t vote Labour because I thought they would wave a magic wand over night and fix everything without anyone feeling an impact.

I want better public services and a strong, functioning society. I accepted that taxes may have to be raised for this, and that I might be financially worse off. I am ok with this.

Yes I am still happy I voted for them

I am not totally sure why you would think otherwise ?

Yes a small number of pensioners will lose out with the cut being a bit "cliff edge" in nature

But we have millions of people in trouble - giving money to pensioners who are paying tax because they have so much income seems daft - like many others they may need to prioritise and cut back in other areas.

Why are the UK treasury refusing a FOI request for more details about the £22 billion black hole?

If the Tories left it that bad then surely they should have no problem with letting people know the details.

I didn’t vote for them, I voted Lib Dem.

I am neither happy nor disappointed. I never expected them to be better than the Tories. I find them all to be an ineffective bunch of tossers stoking culture wars rather than getting real and meaningful work done. WFA - I would have left it as is but asked all rich pensioners to give it to charity and hospices/age concern. I would have appealed to their conscience. I don’t believe in stick. I think all humans are individuals and what we need is unity and a hopeful future. Not another pile of muppets blaming the outgoing muppets. But amen to free speech and that we still live in a country where we are allowed to say this!

@poppyzbrite4 You can't take a political party's manifesto seriously, surely?

I'm just about sick of paying taxes to people I didn't vote for, who either won't tell us their plans, implement stupid plans (fuel allowance cuts and releasing dangerous criminals) or don't even know what their plans are.

Starmer won purely on the strength of hatred for the Tories, not love for Labour. 34% of the overall vote makes his government fundamentally weak, as we will see on 30 October in the next gripping instalment of Why The Fuck Did We Vote Them In.

Do you ever host your own thread or do
you simply feed off others?

Like a host and parasite.

Spot on.

My point exactly.

Surely the issue a lack of quality in leadership across the board! Why aren’t successful CEO types in Government?

And so it starts.
85 year old only getting a pension just got a tax bill of £300 .

Wait till it is someone you know

A PP was complaining that her 90yo Dad was losing the WFA and she was going to have to take her kids out of private school. But with the money freed up by the latter she could pay her Dad's WFA many times over. Isn't that traditional Tory values, looking after your own family instead of expecting the state to do it? It's funny how people complain about how awful socialism is until their own government cheques get taken away...

Hello Bobby J, your leadership campaign is going remarkably well. But if I were you I wouldn't bother wasting your time on this shit for at least... oooh... seven years

I suggest you double your dose, and talk to your therapist.