Labour

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

No questions the Tories were bad, but Labour are on another level.

Are you still happy you voted them in? Be honest now, you are having your doubts aren’t you?

If not, you really should be.

Are the NHS reimbursing training costs to every country that the huge % of non-British doctors and nurses come from? No, didn't think so. That's not how the cost of training a workforce works, is it?

There are more British trained doctors emigrating than non British doctors coming here. Of course it should be the way the cost of training a workforce should work. I’d make them sign up to work in the NHS for a specified period post qualification. It’s absolutely shocking that taxpayers are forking out so much money and seeing no benefit.

Given how hard junior doctors work, for a relatively low salary, I would imagine that it is viewed that the NHS has already had plenty of service in return for that training by the time they are qualified.

As in any industry, the trainees/juniors earn less whilst they are gaining experience and qualifications.

@HeddaGarbeld - my DS went to grammar school where they knew how to deal with boys with SEND, the ASD type of very bright brain. He has just gone and done an ASD assessment at university as part of a large research project into highly gifted individuals. It has come back as ASD.

However, I do have a legal question regarding a diagnosis.
DS was diagnosed abroad by really really qualified people.
DC4 has a young child in her year also diagnosed abroad. State school have accepted the diagnosis here now. I wonder if this is uniform across state schooling now or local authority/borough dependent? It is quite an important question for bilingual & international children.

Actually, I think I should rephrase that. I think perhaps it is an important question for all children. Should they have to accept a diagnosis from a suitably qualified professional abroad given the huge bottlenecks here both in the state and now increasingly also in the private sector for SEND?

Very convenient timing as just a few weeks ago you said your DC don’t have SEN.

It is very interesting @HeddaGarbeld - because I had raised issues in early and mid primary with the SENCO who categorically told me that DC does not have social communication issues/just “anxiety”. We had him assessed by an educational psychologist to understand the academic side more and she gave a brief overview and he did not have preschool and infant history of significant ASD traits. She advised that would most likely mean no ASD. This was some years ago. He grew up in a busy house with lots of siblings and cousins and went to a quietish very structured preschool. I do wonder now.
The ASD diagnoses is very recent! I have not had that much input as a parent, just filled in some forms. This is now an early adult diagnosis. And like I said it is a part of a study into overlapping traits between highly gifted and ASD.

Those training costs are all pre qualification, ie before they become junior doctors. The NHS has had nothing in return from them.

@blossomtoes - the German government manages to train up a lot of doctors for free to those doctors entirely! With no obligations to stay there. Same as France, I think etc.

So we are going to be the only ones in Europe - huge debt plus an obligation to “work”? I am not sure it is even legal.
There might be some common law anti slavery principles. I remember at work there was a long discussion over whether forcing post mat leave women to return to work for 6 months or pay back the enhanced mat pay was “legal”. You are unlikely to be able to force people to stay.
You can incentivise by reward and higher pay and better working conditions! Like the rest of the world.

In any event, this trope of junior doctors absconding to private healthcare is a lie. You have to reach consultant level mostly to practise privately, unless GP.

Forcing PS teacher back into state is not going to work either. You get less people training to be a teacher if there is no PS get out option, not more!

And let’s not even get into the holy “taxpayer” point raised by another poster.

Taxpayers do not all contribute equally. You want to punish those contributing the most and believe there will be no repercussions? That is foolish at best, and entirely unhinged at worst.

As others have said, the only way out of this mess is economic growth across the whole country, controlled inflation, controlled national debt. Until we have the OBR figures next week its all speculation as to what Reeves and co are going to do anyway, taxation wise.
If you overtax you kill economic growth AND end up poorer. The overtax now to undertax before the next election, I assume even Reeves now understands that that is a no-go. I assume everyone now knows what gilt yields mean post Truss.

How do you get to be a consultant? On the foundation of NHS (taxpayer) funded training, that’s how. I’d be very careful about accusing other posters of lying if I were you, particularly based on misinterpretation of their posts.

You are seriously saying that in training up a doctor to qualification, the NHS gets nothing in return?!

Err, ok. I can only say that I disagree. Strongly disagree.

What does it get?

@blossomtoes - I am allowed to say what I think, which I firmly believe is in the best interests of our country.

2 of our most successful sectors are financial services and Education. Mess with those further via overregulation will come at an extremely high price to economic growth.
20 per cent taxation on private education that does not even yield proper money is utter madness.
Leaving the EU actually means you can deregulate and be more competitive. If the numpties in charge choose culture wars over economic growth, then further declines in living standards is on them and people like you.

the only way out of this mess is economic growth across the whole country, controlled inflation, controlled national debt. Until we have the OBR figures next week its all speculation as to what Reeves and co are going to do anyway, taxation wise
If you overtax you kill economic growth AND end up poorer. The overtax now to undertax before the next election, I assume even Reeves now understands that that is a no-go

We tax a lot less than most other EU countries and had a very low Corp Tax rate for many years, yet we have never achieved any sort of real economic growth nor much in the way of real foreign investment, other than a poor exchange rate made UK companies a bargain for others to buy.

Reeves cutting capital expenditure is exactly what Osbourne did, growth then fell.

We've tried deregulation, that gave us Grenfell and poor water quality, among many other things.

I am allowed to say what I think

You are. That doesn’t include calling people who disagree with you liars.

@iwishihadknownmore - no, it is the Brexit factor.

Agree, it pretty much all comes down to economic growth and that means not damaging sectors

It gets the Drs working like dogs until they are fully qualified. Dr training is hideous and very very hard. People doing that for shit pay and trashed lifestyle throughout their 20s need something else. That something else is not being charged for their professional qualifications (other than paying for exam entry and various memberships).

If you are insinuating that the NHS in some way 'owns' the Drs as a result of providing their training then I can only think that is analogous to communist China or similar.

It cannot reform.

FFS! What kind of statement is that? Is this your weekly fucking wind up?

If you are insinuating that the NHS in some way 'owns' the Drs as a result of providing their training then I can only think that is analogous to communist China or similar.

I’m not insinuating anything of the kind. Qualification takes six years and they don’t go anywhere near a patient for the first three, are you seriously suggesting that the NHS gets £250k of value in three years, most of which is under supervision?

I think any commercial organisation that invested a quarter of a million pounds in training a member of staff would stipulate a minimum term of employment to justify its investment.

Exempting a business from paying VAT that other businesses pay is absolutely subsidising them. And we can't afford it at the moment.

Well, that blows a hole in your theory then, because that ain't gone away and never will, as no main party is even willing to try and join SM/CU.

UK companies are at a disadvantage because of this and deregulation just puts even further away from any EU alignment which would boost trade and hence growth.

So your earlier argument that Brexit could make us more competitive is incorrect... cake n eat it, yet again springs to mind!