Labour

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

No questions the Tories were bad, but Labour are on another level.

Are you still happy you voted them in? Be honest now, you are having your doubts aren’t you?

If not, you really should be.

The kids that an no longer afford to stay in their private schools. You can't tell me there won't be any affected kids because that isn't true and you know it.

The policy was introduced only weeks ago to take effect mid school year. The effect hasn't flushed through yet - except the anxiety it's causing but I'm sure you'll think making kids at private school anxious is fine because their parents are rich - in fact there's probably several jokes and sarcastic comments that can be made about them, have a good laugh at the 'rich' kids worrying and the kids needing to change schools, about time the rich kids suffered, how entertaining that will be!

I'm an advocate for a good education for everyone. Raise taxes in other ways (per my previous suggestions) to pay to improve state education but leave kids alone.

He has huge numbers in the commons and many years to go, his answers were so focussed on political scoring rather than the people impacted I don't think he's hearing it or will do much about it.

Too immune with those numbers

Leading also to cancellation of the single person council tax allowance

Westminster could only abolish the single person discount in England as Council Tax powers are devolved. I don't think it is going to happen, despite the rumours.

If parents can't afford to send their children to private schools, they'll have the state sector where 93% of other children go. If that's traumatising then I'm sure their parents can afford counselling.

I don't feel sorry for very rich people having to pay more money. Children experience change all the time, most are resilient and cope.

I doubt the VAT will make any difference. Do I care about very wealthy people having to pay a bit more money? No.

More kids in the state sector, just what the state sector needs!

Most kids are resilient and can cope! Oh well, most kids in sub-standard state education can cope just fine then. It will be great for their resilience. 93% of the population having greatly tested and exercised their resilience will be an excellent thing, surely?

The point is that negative effects on children are just that - wherever and however they are educated. We should be advocating for raising up the kids in the state sector, not dragging down the kids in private (however envious you may be of their parents perceived 'wealth').

Most parents sending their kids to private school are not 'very wealthy' (hence the widespread publicised general concern, versus Eton adding the whole 20% anyway). Most private schools are not Eton or Charterhouse.

Yes... I still wonder why not a single shot was fired by the rioters, given that most of them presumably owned a gun (or many). The best I can come up with is that whoever organised it told them not to bring a gun, and amazingly they all obeyed.

‘Most kids are resilient and can cope’ ..

How I hate this rhetoric. Pumped out time and time again by adults attempting to justify the potential impact of their (or others’) actions on children.

I’m afraid in a lot of cases, it is simply not true. All we need to do is look at the many messed up adults to see how often it is the result of ‘minor’ things that happened in their childhood.

araminta do you have any idea at all how you come across to those of us with children with SEND trying to adapt to state school? The support is extremely lacking. It is very difficult and leading to increasing MH problems and poor attendance in SEND children. Your focus on the impact of VAT because the SEND children of rich parents might be disrupted comes across quite blinkered. Those children are extremely privileged. Their parents can use the fees saved to support their SEND in other ways. Most parents don't have that choice.

Untrue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142538

@CassieMaddox - do you know how you come across assuming 1) I would ever vote Tory 2) that I am not a state school parent and 3) that none of my own DC have ASD!

But how does punishing some of the kids in private school improve those things? There are better ways of raising tax to help children in state with SEND than dragging down/disrupting children in private. Improving the lot of your kid/s does not need to be at the expense of someone else's. Making a child move school because the government imposed a tax is bloody awful. Raise tax differently.

Removing a tax incentive is not "a punishment". Especially not when the country is broke.

The schools could choose to lower the fees for those SEND kids. Or offer them a bursary. It's not down to the Government to solve a private sector issue.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm responding directly to what you've written on here.

It's not a tax incentive to be removed. It's just that until a few weeks ago all education had been exempt from VAT. Just like private healthcare, dentistry, nursery places, sports lessons, university fees etc etc are exempt from VAT. But private schooling is the first to go.

Have you seen the swanky Drs offices down Harley Street? Nothing like your average A&E waiting room..... and the public finances are in such a mess....

@CassieMaddox - explain to me how more DC with SEND joining your DCs state school is going to help both your DC and those DC joining from the private sector?
Half way through the year joining won’t even attract the standard per pupil tunding!

There is literally going to be less money in state schools and more pupils!

If Labour want to remove the VAT exemption for private healthcare that's also fine with me.

I don't see why the tax payer should be subsidising it, especially when we can't afford it.

Nursery places are a totally different kettle of fish because there is not a universal state alternative

There doesn't appear to be a universal state alternative to a private dentist either

I'm not sure whether you have misunderstood somehow, or whether you actually just don't know - but the taxpayer does not subsidise private healthcare, or indeed private anything. Not imposing any tax is not equivalent to subsiding something.

Anything paid for privately comes out of private citizens own pockets (sometimes via insurance) there is no subsidy.

It's misleading to suggest otherwise I agree.

Some countries do tax rebates to lower state burden. It's also a way to inject disposable income into health or education rather than other things.

But @CassieMaddox made none of those assumptions.

Your children do not have ASD or any type of SEND. You’ve said so repeatedly on MN. Bit silly to accuse someone of making an assumption when you’ve stated it as fact.

Agreed. In fact if anyone is subsidising anything, it is the individuals paying tax but choosing private education, healthcare etc. They pay in but don't take out, thereby subsidising people who don't pay tax/ don't pay enough tax to cover cost but take education, healthcare from the NHS etc.

I don't think the country's finances are in a state to offer rebates for unused education (c.£7000 per annum per pupil), sadly. I have heard that the Northern Irish system subsidises private education via the application of a per pupil amount to private schools but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

The taxpayer definitely subsidises private healthcare. It costs £250/270k to train a doctor and £150/170k to train a dentist, that’s an investment that should be used in the NHS not in private healthcare.

Yes PS in anything, rarely pays for the training of staff it then incentivises to work for them, inc SEN trained teachers.