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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

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Southwestten · 15/08/2024 17:13

I do wonder if the woman who started with the false information is feeling embarrassed?

Nick Lowles, chief executive of Hope Not Hate tweeted false information that a Muslim woman had been subjected to an acid attack. Will he also be arrested?

Zonder · 15/08/2024 17:40

Southwestten · 15/08/2024 17:13

I do wonder if the woman who started with the false information is feeling embarrassed?

Nick Lowles, chief executive of Hope Not Hate tweeted false information that a Muslim woman had been subjected to an acid attack. Will he also be arrested?

Did he? When? Was it because he had believed something someone told him without enough checks or was it because he made up a random slanderous comment to stir up trouble?

Southwestten · 15/08/2024 17:50

Zonder this is from the Telegraph but there are lots of other sources too.

‘The boss of an anti-racism charity has apologised after wrongly tweeting that a Muslim woman had been attacked with acid during rioting.
Nick Lowles, chief executive of Hope Not Hate used Twitter on Saturday night to claim there had been reports of an acid attack in Middlesbrough.
“Reports are coming in of acid being thrown out of a car window at a Muslim woman in Middlesbrough. Absolutely horrendous,” Mr Lowles wrote.’

Was it because he had believed something someone told him without enough checks or was it because he made up a random slanderous comment to stir up trouble?
Either way a tweet like that read by 100,000 people will stir up trouble.

Countries issue safety warnings over travel to UK amid riots

People are being warned of the dangers of visiting the UK, with five countries issuing travel alerts following almost a week of rioting.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/05/southport-attack-latest-news-rioters-not-patriots/

Zonder · 15/08/2024 19:14

Yes it would stir up trouble and either way it's really bad. However there's a difference between making up shit yourself and causing riots, and tweeting something rubbish that you should have checked up on.

Can't read the article - pay wall.

FumingTRex · 16/08/2024 17:17

Its disgusting the abuse aimed at JK Rowling, MPs and others on line. But thats not a reason to go soft on people inciting murder online during the riots. On the contrary, I think these sentences will help make people realise there are consequences. Theres a culture change needed so that people realise there’s a difference between making a remark like “killings to good for them” verbally to your friend, who you know wont actually carry it out, and writing it on a public forum.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 16/08/2024 19:32

Looking at the court stories on the news, plenty of those guilty were drunk and out for a punch up.

itsgettingweird · 16/08/2024 21:41

Some reports have said people drove for an hour to get to a riot.

So they weren't even local people,pissed off with what's happening in their immediate area.

They were people actually going out with the sheer intention to riot.

StoneofDestiny · 16/08/2024 22:51

Delighted with the sentences - these people are thugs, rioters, hooligans. They have incited others to join them, attacked our police, damaged houses, burned cars, scared the hell out of peaceful residents, caused thousands of pounds of damage and stolen property from shops. These are not citizens who deserve any sympathy whatsoever, they pleaded guilty to get a reduced sentence when the evidence of their crimes were presented in court, no other reason.
Bet their neighbours are pleased to see the back of them.

StoneofDestiny · 16/08/2024 22:54

Oh - and being drunk is no excuse - how many of us getting drunk would even think to try to burn people's cars, smash up people's homes, try to burn people alive in a hotel, burn down kids libraries,....................I'd guess these yobs have a long history of anti social behaviour.

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:20

Nadeed · 14/08/2024 21:20

Agreed! You can't incite murder and expect nothing to happen.

What about the people who incited murder in the pro Palestine marches. Seen on newspapers. What did they get? I won’t repeat the hideous messages here but it was actually shown widely.

tissueboxandcandles · 17/08/2024 08:26

We have massive amounts of organised crime, money laundering, car thefts, stabbings, burglaries, robberies, shoplifting, drug dealing all going on with impunity in our leafy part of outer London. If we had any police and any of these people were actually arrested, we would need lots more courts and judges and a whole new local prison. I can't see it happening. I am pretty sure at least one nail bar and a car wash involves people trafficking. Everything is reported constantly. Rioting is a step up and I suppose they thought they would get away with it.

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:28

Paul2023 · 15/08/2024 08:27

But that Labour councillor is now wasting the justice systems time. He’s not pleaded guilty, meaning it’ll go to crown court.

He said what he said and was filmed saying it. Why didn’t he just go guilty and accept his punishment?

I take it his career is very much over too?

I really want to know what he is getting for it?

GPTec1 · 17/08/2024 08:30

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:20

What about the people who incited murder in the pro Palestine marches. Seen on newspapers. What did they get? I won’t repeat the hideous messages here but it was actually shown widely.

They didn't incite rioting though did they? towns up and country hit by violence, looting and Police attacked.

As far as i'm aware, the marches in London have been relatively peaceful & thats why the sentences handed out to the few marchers charged, have been very light.

the Govt/Judiciary decided to crack down on this, rightly imho, if they had not, we would have seen on going widespread public disorder.

CaptainMyCaptain · 17/08/2024 08:40

The difference with these riots is that, rather than individual acts of violence, they have collectively been attacking our way of life and our right to live in peace. That is why the sentences have been swift and hard - quite rightly in my opinion. I know people of colour, in particular but others too, who have been scared to go out.

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:45

GPTec1 · 17/08/2024 08:30

They didn't incite rioting though did they? towns up and country hit by violence, looting and Police attacked.

As far as i'm aware, the marches in London have been relatively peaceful & thats why the sentences handed out to the few marchers charged, have been very light.

the Govt/Judiciary decided to crack down on this, rightly imho, if they had not, we would have seen on going widespread public disorder.

They incited murder as the woman incited murder in Facebook. I was so shocked that I decided to leave the U.K. after those protests which I am doing imminently. I can’t believe people see it and totally separate this violence and justify it. Very concerning.

I am also scare of people killing with knives. Are they doing anything about this? Stop and search? What are they doing to prevent the murders on the streets?

JoanOfMarch · 17/08/2024 08:46

Zonder · 15/08/2024 17:40

Did he? When? Was it because he had believed something someone told him without enough checks or was it because he made up a random slanderous comment to stir up trouble?

Needs locking up.

The punishment must match those already handed out.

Zonder · 17/08/2024 08:49

JoanOfMarch · 17/08/2024 08:46

Needs locking up.

The punishment must match those already handed out.

Can you really not seen any difference between tweeting about something you just had a call about, saying you have had a call about it and not declaring it as absolute truth, and someone making up a racist lie and tweeting it to cause trouble?

Both are wrong but one has a very different impact.

Perfectlystill · 17/08/2024 08:57

Agree. Locking some people up for shouting at the police.

It's worrying.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/08/2024 10:45

And meanwhile, this is what their idols are doing:

MP Nigel Farage earning more than £1m a year www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wjgkr1750o

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/08/2024 10:46

(For 9 days a month, whilst claiming to represent a constituency).

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

Treelichen · 17/08/2024 11:07

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Eh? I used to work in youth justice and 12 and 13 yr olds were regularly sentenced for antisocial behaviour. If they break the law, they need to face the consequences.

Flopsythebunny · 17/08/2024 11:20

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Should they have been given an ice cream and told not to do it again?

Ted27 · 17/08/2024 12:38

@Paul2023

Well that depends what they were doing.
'riot' is a specific offence. There are many other charges available.
I think only one or two people have been charged with riot.

I have a friend who is very active with extinction rebellion. He's been on dozens of protests,including the counter protests. Never been arrested

dubsie · 18/08/2024 07:51

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

Not really because civil disorder has always seen harsh sentences. At the start of Mr Camerons reign we saw the same thing....same sentences.

My advice to anyone don't get fooled into looting and being part of civil unrest

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