Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

[TiredWife]

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

Yes I meant why do they have to wait for so long for their cases ? Was it because they pleaded not guilty ? I don’t understand why others were sentenced so quickly?

Is it likely the Labour councillor will go to prison ?

That's much lower than most of the civilised world, and seen as insane elsewhere. If you're below the age where you can ever be deemed to consent to sex, because we all agree that prior to 13 it is impossible for you to truly understand what you are consenting to, then the contradiction should be obvious.

Of course kids who commit crimes need intervention. But pretending they know what they're doing in the same way a 17 year old might is just barking.

It's simple make these tougher sentences the norm not the other way round

Absolutely agree those looting etc should be punished and the government is saying prison is a deterrent- but only recently prisoners were being released early as the prisons are overcrowded. Criminals that commit (in my opinion) awful crimes are given suspended sentences or community type orders. People who have been victims of serious crimes are waiting years for their cases to be heard, whilst these cases jump the queue. Its all political nothing to do with justice.

@Paul2023

Ricky Jones did not enter a plea and his case is going to Crown Court which is where more serious cases are dealt with. If convicted he will be sentenced in line with current sentencing guidelines.

The ones being dealt with swiftly are pleading guilty and going before Magistrates so it's a quicker process

@perfectstorm

Should that not also apply to the 10 year olds who murdered James Bulger?

Thanks - I’ll look it up.

This country is genuinely scary at the moment. Having grown up on the other side of the Iron Curtain I am getting major flashbacks to my childhood where saying the wrong thing would get you disappeared.

Bullshit

Inciting violence here gets you sent to prison. The two aren’t remotely comparable.

Am less uncomfortable and more gobsmacked as the wheels of justice seem to turn so slowly elsewhere and yet suddenly people are being tried and sentenced in days! It's actually quite impressive, if a bit alarming.

I have worked with autistic people for over two decades and I have always explained to them how the law works and what is considered a crime, precisely because of the number of autistic people in the criminal justice system. The Southport attacker is also autistic. Harold Shipman was autistic.

The vast majority of autistic people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators of crimes, but I have made it part of my mission in life to keep autistic young people out of the criminal justice system as much as possible.

Schools do no favours by excusing criminal behaviour on the grounds that the student is neurodivergent, because that is not going to be a defence in court. Yes, I do feel very sorry for this young man and I think we need to recognise that autistic young people are more vulnerable to radicalisation than their neurotypical peers. It needs to be considered as part of education moving forward after the riots.

No, it serves then right

I think it's good, and amazing to see the justice system is able to move so fast. A pity it's crap for everything else, murderers out after a few years, rapists getting a slap on the wrist. It should be a lot tougher and faster acting. Oh and they should stop using the words 'life sentence' because it isn't anymore, it's a nonsense when they say XX was sentenced to life, with a minimum of 10 years.

That is not the case and there are many paedophiles with long prison sentences or on remand awaiting trial.

Yes, I agree with the OP. I am sort of impressed with the speed of sentencing - not that that stops some Tory supporters claiming it's all Sir Keir's fault on being elected! - but it reminds me of Mick Jagger's sentencing for drug possession in 68 or thereabouts where it was successfully argued - by Jacob Rees-Mogg's Dad in fact - that he got a far stiffer sentence for being famous, and to be made an example of, because of his influence, and that's not how justice should work.

But you'll be advised not to hold your breath waiting for the likes of the Post Office's Paula Vennells to come before the court, those complicit with the contaminated blood scandal, Grenfell prosecutions and so on - in fact, any State operative will get let off, I'd be far more impressed if Sir Keir applied the law in those areas but as he is not going ahead with Leveson 2 then I can't see it yet.

The State applies the law to uphold the power and authority of the State - but use the law to hold the State to account? Don't be soft!

Tell you what - you wait and see how you feel if your husband/son/brother had their jaw broken or bricks pelted at them when they were just trying to do their jobs......

Thought so.

As long as you haven’t called for asylum seekers to be murdered on Facebook or for hotels to be burned down, you have nothing to be concerned about.

Haven’t read the thread but I think these sentences were the right thing to do.

The possibility of the riots escalating and overwhelming the police and authorities was very real; a breakdown of law and order on a large scale across the country. The violence could have escalated very fast in a very nasty way. This is what the agitators wanted, and the consequences should that breakdown have happened would have been devastating- it felt very close to that happening before the counter protests happening that Wednesday night.

So a clear signal that anyone involved in such actions will be harshly dealt with was exactly the right thing to do for the wider security and peace of the country.

Being autistic should not be an excuse for committing crime, nor having the same punishment no excuse should be

This

Many of my friends and most of my work colleagues are predominantly Asian. They have been so very sad and upset at the riots and the language and hate they see as being directed at them. They are the most lovely group of people and I'm heartbroken for them.
A few of them have young teenagers who have been too scared to go to the park or shops because of the riots and a couple have shown signs of anxiety that are new.
We need to come down hard on racism and rioters.
However with the young ones I think education and safe and well checks are in order. We live near one of riots and my kids are loved, never racist and well cared for. They weren't allowed out. The parents of these youngsters need the punishment for failing them.

Those children will get a slap on the wrist and as they are minors it most likely won’t impact their future careers but hopefully it will get them thinking twice about being little shits.

Considering that Starmer’s wife and children are Jewish and that the anti-genocide protests didn’t involve setting synagogues on fire, I don’t think it’s double standards.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Things like that affect many of us personally and if you have experiences like yours, you don’t want this happening to you again.

The public areas are an extension of our homes. Your home may not have been smashed up or burnt, but what happened made you feel unsafe in your home area, and places that formed a part of your daily life were destroyed, right? Especially as a child, feeling safe on your streets is important and a right the gov has to protect.

I was caught up in one of the early online-driven riots involving 1000s of people. Public transport was cut off so I couldn’t get home, so was stuck in an area of ethnic tension and violence as a young girl and scared for my physical safety. It created ethnic division overnight so my best friend stopped talking to me or anyone who was white overnight, it was us vs them at school, with white and minority ethnic kids sitting separately after being good friends 10+ years. A member of gov lived on my street so we had 24/7 armed special forces outside and a sniper on the roof.

I don’t think this is how anyone wants to live.

Online posts don’t just spontaneously appear in events like these in 2024. Yes, useful idiots jump on the bandwagon, but bot accounts and coordinated amplification is very real. So people that post online to set specific buildings on fire and naming individuals without any evidence… Sorry, they aren’t innocent, their actions quite possibly caused more damage than any individual in-person rioter.