Reform party seems to be ahead in my area.

[Moier]

Any of you voting Reform?
My area was always labour..( I've never voted labour).. but according to what I'm reading.. it's surprisingly gone the other way.
Will have to wait and see.
Did him being in I'm a Celebrity make him more popular..or is the extreme right the way to go?

@cupcaske123

Woops I was correcting a typo....

Basically I agree with what you say. apologies for the confusion and my phone autocorrect!

Apologies.

Reform are filling the gap between the hard right wingers Britain first/BNP & hard right Tory. I think a lot more 40s/50s age group are voting for them as well as the traditional older generation. Reform appeals to those who want to cut immigration but don't want to get their hands dirty like Britain first supporters.

Well of course it would benefit Farage (lovely French surname) and his millionaire cronies.

Oh please take a photo and put that up on here. That is priceless. Vile racist, fascists. I can't believe so many people fall for it. It really shows how little people think things through and how racist they are.

I think that's too simplistic. Yes some Reform voters are attracted to dog whistle politics but many are absolutely fed up to the back teeth of austerity and lack of public services. Many are wondering why, in the fifth richest nation on earth, millions are using food banks and a quarter of kids are in absolute poverty.

Neither party offers any solutions, so for many, like Brexit, it's a form of protest.

Thank you for engaging on a point of policy rather than the usual hyperbolic dross seen on these threads.

I’m going to assume the policy you present in such negative terms is the plan to replace the equalities act. Next to that aim, in the ‘contract’ it is explained that they want to stop positive discrimination on the basis that it is best for the economy if people are hired based on ability and merit, not quotas.

Bluntly, I don’t see a problem with that. Eg I want my doctors to be the best, not selected for their skin colour or other protected characteristic.

Now, perhaps they want to make other changes to it as well - but a spot of googling has not revealed a stated desire to scrap “women’s rights, and protections for gay people, disabled people and ethnic minorities”. In fact various of the contract promises are clear that women’s rights are to be protected far more than the other parties (excluding the shitshow that is the Tories) could even countenance.

I would be very interested to read statements, by farage and reform - not ‘interpretations’ by others - as to what else they would change on the equalities act. If you have any links, please do share.

Unfortunately, most commentators on this site prefer to say ‘go and google it’ - which I note I have done. Often it turns out that they are not basing their opinions on fact, but are instead simply repeating a position that someone fed to them. They then try to hide that lack of foundation by calling anyone who doesn’t fall in line with them a racist, bigot or other names. Which is of course tedious and fails to move the debate on in any meaningful or useful way.

My points stand. If the policies are bad and the intentions poor, they can be defeated via debate. But to have that debate, the other ‘side’ has to engage properly, rather than acting in an arrogant and supercilious manner towards those they clearly see as inferior in many ways.

Well, there was rent and investment in the property market, so twice. It is what little assets people have being bought up.

Yup.

Nail on the head.

fifth richest nation on earth

@cupcaske123

I'm wondering why anyone would think we're the fifth richest nation when GDP per capita is what matters in terms of national wealth. We're not even top 20 on that. I certainly wish we were top 5.

I agree with @Validus 's point about the need for informed discussion. But it needs to be based on fact not fiction, misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

I stand corrected. We're the 6th largest economy on earth and 21st re GDP per capita. My point still stands.

We're the 6th largest economy on earth and 21st re GDP per capita. My point still stands

@cupcaske123 If your point relates to millions are using food banks and a quarter of kids are in absolute poverty then we're on the same page. But we are in an economic mess, much of our own making. We 100% do need improved investment, improved productivity, and improved policy development and delivery by whoever forms the next gov, and a much more collaborative approach to the problems we face rather than the current ideological and dogma driven approach.

Do I think Reform are the answer? Not in the slightest. But their very existence and level of possible support should be a massive wake up call.

Hear hear.

Not sure Brexit is a great example. Why is it the responsibility of the left to engage ( which they often do) and not the right’s ability to admit that actually the things they are blaming for problems aren’t actually the problem and they are wrong.

There are ma y posters who have spent a lot of time on here either pointing out lies told by the leave side or lies told about immigration. It changes very little. Lots of people would rather do politics by soundbite and taking the easy option of listening to lies than educate themselves or consider a different opinion.

If Brexit is the lesson we should be learning from then I suppose the lesson is ‘I told you so.’ And people might want to consider who is the fool if they get shafted by Farage twice.

not the right’s ability to admit that actually the things they are blaming for problems aren’t actually the problem and they are wrong

It’s only your opinion that they are wrong. That they are targeting the wrong things. Their opinion is that they are not wrong and these are the problems they care about. you think the facts support you. They disagree.

Both sides have to engage, explore facts and actually try to understand both perspectives. And on the Brexit issues, both sides could Marshall actual facts to support them (plus a lot of lies). A balanced view was possible, but mostly drowned out by the frankly disappointing posturing and media sound bites.

I think Brexit is a fantastic example of what happens when governments fail to carry the people with them. When they ignore and belittle valid concerns. Eventually they’ll get a bloody nose.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/reform-uk-manifesto-suggests-huge-cuts-threats-to-disability-rights-and-risks-to-safety-of-benefit-claimants/

@Blackcats7 whats wrong with Depeche Mode?!

He pretends to be a nationalist, but his recent comments about his admiration for Putin, and how the EU forced him into declaring war and killing thousands and part destroying Ukraine, make him nothing less than a TRAITOR

Nothing. Saw them at the Gaumont in Southampton 1982/3 ish. Whilst sporting my purple ( well more burgundy now I come to remember it better) hair.

@Blackcats7 love it!

I would have thought Brexit was traitorous enough. He's been open for a while about his admiration for people like Enoch Powell, Trump and Putin. The massive cuts he's talking about are pretty traitorous as are the rights he wants to take away from women and vulnerable minorities.

I cant belive that people would rather support and re for reform than spoil their paper.

I get people are unhappy with the current choices, but reform?! Really?

The views farage holds are revolting. I watched the party political broadcast last night, was very slick and I can see why people would think that’s reasonable but surely people don’t just base who their voting for on that alone?

Spoiling the paper is utterly pointless. No one cares.

A proper vote will make far more of an impression.

Did you hear that woman the other day on a TV election programme, who said she was so fed up of immigrants, she wanted to go and live abroad herself?

How deluded, hypocritical and plain stupid can you be? Bet she voted Brexit too and does not even understand the consequences of that!