Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Politics

If labour wins the next GE are they likely to overturn the ban on puberty blockers and disregard the Cass Report?

137 replies

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 13:14

I want to vote for them but I'm so scared they will jump straight on the bandwagon and risk our kids safety. And women's.

OP posts:
HoneyButterPopcorn · 21/04/2024 14:48

If it means in anyway considers the desires of men who declare themselves women - it is just something else stolen from women.

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 14:48

He went to school dressed like that. He was a teacher. It's a public fetish. Why some people think it is acceptable to make children participate in things like this is beyond me.

Well, I get why some people do, but women? Women who call themselves feminists? Why do they support public fetishes like that.

AGlinnerOfHope · 21/04/2024 14:48

AGlinnerOfHope · 21/04/2024 14:47

@valensiwalensi thank you for being prepared to listen to the Cass report, at least.

Can I ask, do you think transmen share all the qualities of men and so can be treated just as men are?

I’m trying to understand why you would include transwomen in feminism when they have little in common with women.

Cross post with you saying you don’t want to talk about it. Sorry.

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 14:48

valensiwalensi · 21/04/2024 14:47

My feminism is intersectional thank you.

i didn’t come here to discuss that though.

Oh look a buzz word!

OP posts:
valensiwalensi · 21/04/2024 14:51

AGlinnerOfHope · 21/04/2024 14:48

Cross post with you saying you don’t want to talk about it. Sorry.

I think the Cass report is really important. It absolutely needs to be listened to and I would not support Labour if they disregarded it.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2024 14:56

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 14:48

He went to school dressed like that. He was a teacher. It's a public fetish. Why some people think it is acceptable to make children participate in things like this is beyond me.

Well, I get why some people do, but women? Women who call themselves feminists? Why do they support public fetishes like that.

It was a very interesting case.

  • Trans women are women.
  • What, this one? [picture of Isla Bryson, convicted rapist, in skintight leggings showing the genital area]
  • Well, no, obviously not that one.
  • Why not? How are we supposed to tell that Isla Bryson is not a woman but any other obvious male who dresses in stereotypically female clothing is a woman if they say they are?
  • Because they say so. They know their own gender identity.
  • Have you heard of lying?
  • No one would lie about anything so serious.
  • Isla Bryson did!
  • That's a very exceptional case.
  • What about this one? [picture of 'teacher' with his enormous prosthetic breasts]
  • Emmmmm.......
PineappleTime · 21/04/2024 14:57

valensiwalensi · 21/04/2024 14:42

According to YOU.

eh no, according to the actual definition of feminism. Fem. 'Fem'. Not masc.

ginasevern · 21/04/2024 15:09

Does anyone know the statistics of rape, sexual assault or violence perpetrated by transwomen?

Bromptotoo · 21/04/2024 15:15

ginasevern · 21/04/2024 15:09

Does anyone know the statistics of rape, sexual assault or violence perpetrated by transwomen?

You won't get a straight answer to that question....

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:17

Bromptotoo · 21/04/2024 15:15

You won't get a straight answer to that question....

This is interesting though.

If labour wins the next GE are they likely to overturn the ban on puberty blockers and disregard the Cass Report?
OP posts:
5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:20

ginasevern · 21/04/2024 14:10

@5GreenLeaves

"I also said 'noone should never be subject to violence or feel unsafe using the toilet' but you'll ignore that part..."

No, I'm not ignoring anything. Twice now you've used violent descriptive language so it wasn't a mistake or error of judgment. I would be disturbed to hear affirmative views on "battering" people or "turfing them out on their arse" pouring from the mouths of tiny children so your diminuitive size is irrelevant.

Edited

I'm using violent language because eit was a violent act.

Men found in toilets were battered.

They weren't politely asked to leave with a pat on their head. They were seen to be wrongdoing and physically hurt for it, often badly.

Why would I sugarcoat an act of violence against someone with 'soft language'?

Describing a violent act with factual language doesn't mean I condone it.

OP posts:
HoneyButterPopcorn · 21/04/2024 15:24

Since folks today think words are ‘literal violence’ …

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2024 15:25

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:17

This is interesting though.

I am a simple person. These are government statistics, so one would hope they are accurate. I'm not sure those figures include prisoners with a GRC, so if anything they may be an underestimate.

Is there any way to make sense of these stats other than drawing one of these two conclusions?

  1. Male prisoners who identify as women have a higher rate of sex offending than other male prisoners. (Sex offending is, of course, a very rare offence amongst women in prison.)
OR
  1. Male prisoners who are convicted sex offenders may say they identify as a woman in the hope of getting transferred to a women's prison. In other words, they say this because they are manipulative liars who enjoy playing the system, and they have a deep-seated urge to abuse and upset women.
tissueboxandcandles · 21/04/2024 15:27

The most recent statistics from the prison service's own figures are that men in prison who identify as women are 8 times more likely to have been convicted of rape/sexual assault than the whole of the rest of the male prisoners. There is a a thread over on FWR that has plenty of links to the source data.

RedToothBrush · 21/04/2024 15:30

I personally think that the Rubicon has been crossed with certain issues relating to trans.

Insurance Risk means no puberty blockers for children and limited cross hormones for under 18 unless we start to see significantly different high quality research findings without high levels of side effects and detransition (we won't).

It's just untenable for the NHS.

Challenges can be legally fought now with Cass too.

Other issues are muddier and not clear cut.

Bromptotoo · 21/04/2024 15:42

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I believe the MoJ stats do not include those with a GRC. There's a problem becuase the numbers in gaol with a GRC are so small that there's a risk of 'jigsaw identification'.

Your points 1 & 1 - assume it should be 1&2 - are not mutually exclusive.

I suspect most fall into the second group and are seeking attention and/or hoping to get a pass into easier conditions.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:42

WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 14:44

.

What does this person have to do with whether Labour will reverse puberty blockers? Confused That is a Canadian teacher who didn't take puberty blockers. Totally irrelevant.

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:43

I see this isn't actually a thread about what Labour will or won't do at all. Just another thread about trans politics. Very boring 😴

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:44

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:43

I see this isn't actually a thread about what Labour will or won't do at all. Just another thread about trans politics. Very boring 😴

Yes, a thread about keeping women and children safe from potential predators like the 'teacher' pictured.
Yawn indeed.

OP posts:
AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:47

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:44

Yes, a thread about keeping women and children safe from potential predators like the 'teacher' pictured.
Yawn indeed.

Thats not how you started it though. You started asking if Labour will reverse puberty blockers. Was that just to get people to click on the thread?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2024 15:55

Bromptotoo · 21/04/2024 15:42

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I believe the MoJ stats do not include those with a GRC. There's a problem becuase the numbers in gaol with a GRC are so small that there's a risk of 'jigsaw identification'.

Your points 1 & 1 - assume it should be 1&2 - are not mutually exclusive.

I suspect most fall into the second group and are seeking attention and/or hoping to get a pass into easier conditions.

Edited

Good, we agree. So when women see obvious males entering single-sex spaces and using single-sex services, how do we know who the liars are and who are the ones who genuinely believe they are women? (To be fair, my position here is that it doesn't matter, neither group should be there, but some people try to say it does make a difference and the second group is safe - but it all depends on there being no liars, doesn't it?)

Adam, your starting point on this issue seems to be that trans-identification is a given and people can decide for themselves what their gender identity is, which will trump what sex they are. My position is that these beliefs about gender identity are like religious belief (at best). There's no way for anybody else to verify what someone's gender identity is. Many people who are trans-identified seem to be in thrall to gender stereotypes, which is problematic for the rest of us who would like to see an end to that sort of pigeonholing.

Biological sex on the other hand is real and immutable, and it's easy for most of us to identify what sex another human is, as you would expect for all mammals.

So - if we can't even agree on the definition of terms, how are we supposed to have confidence that a confused girl understands what she is saying when she says 'I identify as a boy'? How is it ever going to be safe to put her on a powerful drug that will stop an essential bodily process like puberty and leave her with lifelong side effects, which may include a drop in IQ and permanently weakened bones? How can we expect her to use her brain, which is artificially kept in a child-like state by the drugs, to make the most important decision she will ever make in her life, namely, to go on cross-hormones, which will mean she will be infertile and unable to enjoy a normal sex life, not to mention yet more physical health issues such as increased risk of heart disease and cancer?

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:56

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:47

Thats not how you started it though. You started asking if Labour will reverse puberty blockers. Was that just to get people to click on the thread?

Because discussions progress?
Because at the forefront of the discussion is the Cass report and the fact that over 8000 children were let down by the NHS is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the mountain of shit that women and children have been put through the last decade in persuit of "inclusion"

An inclusion that excludes women.

So of course the discussion is going to flow into the other atrocities women have faced due to this toxic movement.

Are you saying that every thread posted on MN must strictly adhere to the topic outlined in the title and must not deviate into natural conversation to relating topics?

Must have missed that memo.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 21/04/2024 15:57

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 15:44

Yes, a thread about keeping women and children safe from potential predators like the 'teacher' pictured.
Yawn indeed.

It’s fine, don’t worry people can hide the thread if not what they want

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:59

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2024 15:55

Good, we agree. So when women see obvious males entering single-sex spaces and using single-sex services, how do we know who the liars are and who are the ones who genuinely believe they are women? (To be fair, my position here is that it doesn't matter, neither group should be there, but some people try to say it does make a difference and the second group is safe - but it all depends on there being no liars, doesn't it?)

Adam, your starting point on this issue seems to be that trans-identification is a given and people can decide for themselves what their gender identity is, which will trump what sex they are. My position is that these beliefs about gender identity are like religious belief (at best). There's no way for anybody else to verify what someone's gender identity is. Many people who are trans-identified seem to be in thrall to gender stereotypes, which is problematic for the rest of us who would like to see an end to that sort of pigeonholing.

Biological sex on the other hand is real and immutable, and it's easy for most of us to identify what sex another human is, as you would expect for all mammals.

So - if we can't even agree on the definition of terms, how are we supposed to have confidence that a confused girl understands what she is saying when she says 'I identify as a boy'? How is it ever going to be safe to put her on a powerful drug that will stop an essential bodily process like puberty and leave her with lifelong side effects, which may include a drop in IQ and permanently weakened bones? How can we expect her to use her brain, which is artificially kept in a child-like state by the drugs, to make the most important decision she will ever make in her life, namely, to go on cross-hormones, which will mean she will be infertile and unable to enjoy a normal sex life, not to mention yet more physical health issues such as increased risk of heart disease and cancer?

Please don't tell me what my position is. That's not my position at all.

My position is a very few people have gender dysphoria eased by transitioning (a.k.a. being recognised in society as the opposite sex to what they are). I think we should accommodate them where possible, whilst retaining single sex spaces where necessary for safety and dignity.

I don't and never have supported puberty blockers or surgery.

Maybe just ask before you start making stuff up about me.

5GreenLeaves · 21/04/2024 16:04

AdamRyan · 21/04/2024 15:59

Please don't tell me what my position is. That's not my position at all.

My position is a very few people have gender dysphoria eased by transitioning (a.k.a. being recognised in society as the opposite sex to what they are). I think we should accommodate them where possible, whilst retaining single sex spaces where necessary for safety and dignity.

I don't and never have supported puberty blockers or surgery.

Maybe just ask before you start making stuff up about me.

I think you'll find that most GC people's stance on here too. Mine included.

We don't wnat to eradicate trans people. Just protect our own spaces.

... You didn't ask us our views either...

OP posts: