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Politics

Trump Trial Time - banish all memories of Mueller.

973 replies

Spandauer · 19/04/2024 16:29

Is this #132?
Still trying to rid the world of this troublesome twat.

Old thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4912378-trump-gets-gagged-mccarthy-gets-booted-whats-next-in-trumpworld

OP posts:
Thread gallery
115
AcrossthePond55 · 23/04/2024 17:57

@Spandauer

This sounds quite damaging to Trump - formation of a conspiracy... "eyes and ears" of Trump campaign?
Or am I just being over optimistic?

(IANAL) To my understanding 'catch and kill' isn't illegal, nor is the paying of hush money illegal. Are both of these shady? You bet. And I think I remember that more and more courts are deciding that any NDAs in association with either of the dubious tactics are not legally enforceable.

My son works in the entertainment industry and frankly shrugs at 'catch and kill' because it's so common. But he does feel (and I agree) that there's a world of difference between some star having the kibosh put on a story and a politician doing the same thing in order to be elected to office. We don't have the right to know every peccadillo that some actor/actress does, but we do have the right to know the 'real person' behind the political mask.

So whether or not it's actually damaging to Trump as far as the trial goes will depend on the personal feelings of the jurors. Trump is on trial for falsifying records, not payola itself. Will it make them believe that someone who approves of catch and kill and payola is also someone who approve of falsifying records* to cover it up? Who knows.

*to clarify, no one is saying he gave 'payola' to Pecker (snicker, apt name) & covered it up. He's more of a (lack of) character witness.

Spandauer · 23/04/2024 18:03

As for "most eligible bachelor": Trump had been married to Melania for more than ten years at that point, so he was hardly a bachelor.

Yes - that's what I thought, and that he basically went from one wife to another.
Although of course, if he was using one of his many aliases maybe he thought he was single?

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 23/04/2024 18:04

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 23/04/2024 17:55

Did Trump ever play cricket in his life? He doesn't strike me as likely ever to have been a team player, but I might be doing him an injustice.

As for "most eligible bachelor": Trump had been married to Melania for more than ten years at that point, so he was hardly a bachelor.

Edited

The portrait is supposedly 'tennis whites'. But yes, the long trousers make it look like cricket. Maybe he's a spindleshanks and didn't want his legs shown in shorts.

I caught that about 'eligible bachelor'. Makes me think this catch and kill had been going on far longer than 2016. Of course prior to his run, the 'deal' could have been killing stories dangerous to his marriages or businesses in exchange for gossip, as opposed to saving his political reputation.

AcrossthePond55 · 23/04/2024 18:06

Spandauer · 23/04/2024 18:03

As for "most eligible bachelor": Trump had been married to Melania for more than ten years at that point, so he was hardly a bachelor.

Yes - that's what I thought, and that he basically went from one wife to another.
Although of course, if he was using one of his many aliases maybe he thought he was single?

I don't think he's ever considered himself NOT single, married or not married.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 23/04/2024 18:23

AcrossthePond55 · 23/04/2024 17:57

@Spandauer

This sounds quite damaging to Trump - formation of a conspiracy... "eyes and ears" of Trump campaign?
Or am I just being over optimistic?

(IANAL) To my understanding 'catch and kill' isn't illegal, nor is the paying of hush money illegal. Are both of these shady? You bet. And I think I remember that more and more courts are deciding that any NDAs in association with either of the dubious tactics are not legally enforceable.

My son works in the entertainment industry and frankly shrugs at 'catch and kill' because it's so common. But he does feel (and I agree) that there's a world of difference between some star having the kibosh put on a story and a politician doing the same thing in order to be elected to office. We don't have the right to know every peccadillo that some actor/actress does, but we do have the right to know the 'real person' behind the political mask.

So whether or not it's actually damaging to Trump as far as the trial goes will depend on the personal feelings of the jurors. Trump is on trial for falsifying records, not payola itself. Will it make them believe that someone who approves of catch and kill and payola is also someone who approve of falsifying records* to cover it up? Who knows.

*to clarify, no one is saying he gave 'payola' to Pecker (snicker, apt name) & covered it up. He's more of a (lack of) character witness.

As I have understood it, what Trump is being brought to trial for is not paying off a porn star he had sex with, nor even for "catch and kill", but for claiming that was all he was doing when he was being inexact about finance and claiming that the payment to Michael Cohen was nothing to do with the election nor anything other than legal fees. This was obviously lies, and meant things hadn't gone through the books properly and the payments were fraudulent.

Michael Cohen, of course, is in the interesting position of having conspired all on his own to defraud the public and tamper with an election, which is quite a trick if you can manage it.

Conspire (American Heritage Dictionary):

  1. To plan together secretly to commit an illegal or wrongful act or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
  2. To join or act together; combine.
Spandauer · 23/04/2024 18:25

Following on from Across's explanation of what Trump is being accused of (falsifying records) as opposed to the payola testimony etc. (thanks Across!)

Prosecutors spell out overall theory, underlying crime at the heart of Trump trial

By Devlin Barrett

Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass said the prosecution of Donald Trump for felony falsification of business records is based on the belief that fake records were created to cover up an underlying violation of New York state election law.


Under state law, falsifying business records is a misdemeanor, unless it is done to further or conceal another crime. Then it can be charged, as it was in Trump’s case, as a felony. In the Trump case, prosecutors have often been vague about what, exactly, is the underlying crime that was allegedly being concealed or furthered in the hush money case.


At a hearing Tuesday, Steinglass said the statute in question is New York state election law 17-152 — conspiracy to promote or prevent an election. That law makes it a misdemeanor when two or more people “conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means.” 
Steinglass said the entire prosecution theory “is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016.”


The prosecutor made the argument after Trump lawyer Emil Bove said prosecutors were eliciting from David Pecker, the former CEO of the company that published the National Enquirer, testimony involving people and political actions that do not relate to any crime.


Steinglass said Bove was wrong about what the evidence showed. “Mr. Bove may interpret some of the evidence in a way that’s different from the way that we interpret it,” the prosecutor said.


The defense and the prosecution did agree on one thing: Both expect there to be continued disputes at trial over how much testimony about political figures, and political activity, should be presented to the jury.

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DuncinToffee · 23/04/2024 19:52

David Pecker says he went from talking to Michael Cohen a couple times a week to speaking with him everyday, sometimes twice a day, when Karen McDougal's Trump story emerged.

Pecker says Cohen told him to not talk over a landline, but use the app Signal because it's encrypted and messages would be destroyed.

Spandauer · 23/04/2024 22:27

No Trump trial tomorrow - Judge Merchan is keeping Wednesdays for his other court business.

David Pecker will be back in the witness box on Thursday to finish Government testimony and then cross examination by Trump's lawyers.

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MsAmerica · 24/04/2024 02:58

Spandauer · 19/04/2024 16:29

Is this #132?
Still trying to rid the world of this troublesome twat.

Old thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4912378-trump-gets-gagged-mccarthy-gets-booted-whats-next-in-trumpworld

I know this wasn't your purpose, but that's a perfect illustration of the silly problematic aspects of AIBU. For starters, it's a catch-all undermining the usefulness of other forums.

Spandauer · 24/04/2024 08:20

MsAmerica · 24/04/2024 02:58

I know this wasn't your purpose, but that's a perfect illustration of the silly problematic aspects of AIBU. For starters, it's a catch-all undermining the usefulness of other forums.

I guess I get what you're saying but in explanation, these Trump threads started back in 2015/2016 when he first announced his intention to run for president and the first thread would have been titled something along the lines of "Is he fit to be president/run the world?" I honestly can't remember anymore! (My hazy memory is that it was started by a MNetter called GingerIvy)

IIRC at that time Chat threads only lasted for 30 days...so here they lie... AIBU?

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borntobequiet · 24/04/2024 08:36

I always thought AIBU the perfect repository for discussions about one of the Most Unreasonable People Ever. Actually Trump is more than that - he’s not so much unreasonable, or anti-reasonable, as the embodiment of everything that transcends all normal notions of reason.

Spandauer · 24/04/2024 08:43

Ooh! It appears we have been frogmarched into Politics!
Sneaky?

OP posts:
prettybird · 24/04/2024 09:30

There was nothing wrong with it in AIBU.

If the thread police really want to police threads, they should go through every thread on AIBU and report them for not being in the "right" topic and taking it upon themselves to re-allocate the thread Hmm

In fact, why isn't this thread in Legal Matters WinkConfused?

Spandauer · 24/04/2024 10:15

prettybird · 24/04/2024 09:30

There was nothing wrong with it in AIBU.

If the thread police really want to police threads, they should go through every thread on AIBU and report them for not being in the "right" topic and taking it upon themselves to re-allocate the thread Hmm

In fact, why isn't this thread in Legal Matters WinkConfused?

I've asked for it to be moved to Chat. The Sunak threads exist quite happily there.

New posters may be reluctant to engage with a thread in Politics I think.

But I won't hold my breath!

OP posts:
prettybird · 24/04/2024 10:19

I've no objection where it is Grin - I just get annoyed at the Thread Police Hmm

DuncinToffee · 25/04/2024 14:21

NBC News confirms the names of the Trump officials charged in the Arizona fake electors scheme whose name are redacted in the indictment:

• Mark Meadows
• Rudy Giuliani
• Boris Epshteyn
• Mike Roman
• Jenna Ellis
• Christina Bobb
• John Eastman

Grrrpredictivetex · 25/04/2024 15:11

Has Melanie been seen lately? Can't remember seeing her since she moved to Florida.

Grrrpredictivetex · 25/04/2024 15:12

Melania

AcrossthePond55 · 25/04/2024 15:31

DuncinToffee · 25/04/2024 14:21

NBC News confirms the names of the Trump officials charged in the Arizona fake electors scheme whose name are redacted in the indictment:

• Mark Meadows
• Rudy Giuliani
• Boris Epshteyn
• Mike Roman
• Jenna Ellis
• Christina Bobb
• John Eastman

From the article:

"The indictment also described another indicted individual as the "chief of staff" in 2020-- appearing to match Mark Meadows’s description.

Full description: [REDACTED] was Unindicted Coconspirator 1's Chief of Staff in 2020. He worked with members of the Trump Campaign to coordinate and implement the false Republican electors' votes in Arizona and six other states. was involved in the many efforts to keep Unindicted Coconspirator 1 in power despite his defeat at the polls".

Bolding above is mine. If [REDACTED] is Mark Meadows and [REDACTED] was Unindicted Coconspirator 1's CoS, then ipso facto Unindicted Coconspriator is Trump.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/11-indicted-arizona-2020-election-probe/story?id=109509462

Giuliani, Meadows indicted in Arizona fake elector scheme; Trump unindicted co-conspirator

Several former and current key aides to former President Donald Trump appear to be among those charged by the Arizona State Attorney General.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/11-indicted-arizona-2020-election-probe/story?id=109509462

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 25/04/2024 15:36

@Grrrpredictivetex Melania Trump is alive and well and living in the Style pages of the NYT, last Saturday.
Melania Trump, back in black.

Trump Trial Time - banish all memories of Mueller.
AcrossthePond55 · 25/04/2024 15:39

OK, put on your tin foil hats, y'all, it's Deep State Time. Could all this moving us around & ending up in 'politics' be a plot to keep us out of a very popular/oft visited topic (AIBU)? 🤨 I mean, IIRC we've been in AIBU since 2015. I smell CENSORSHIP!!! And CONSPIRACY!!!

(Yes, that's sarcasm) Sorta. Honestly though, I don't think MN should move any thread until they've contacted the 'thread starter' to allow them to lodge an objection or select the new topic themselves.

Doesn't Chat auto-delete in 30 days? We definitely do NOT want to end up there!! These threads are a historical document!

AcrossthePond55 · 25/04/2024 15:55

As far as Melania goes, I'd give my eye teeth to read the original pre-nup and most recent post-nup for the Trump marriage. She must have the hide of a rhino and a pre/post-nup that's a really, really sweet deal because I'd have blown that pop stand after the 2020 election. Either that or she was stupid enough to sign a 'walk away with nothing' agreement. Apparently Marla Maples pre nup stipulated she only got $1m (+child support) if the marriage hit the skids.

DuncinToffee · 25/04/2024 16:09

Chat doesn't delete after 30 days anymore, the Sunak threads (we are on 41!) are all still searchable

Someone must have reported this thread for it to be moved to Politics, imo, allegedly

DuncinToffee · 25/04/2024 16:11

It has been noted that no Trump family members have been attending the trial.