Or have Labour totally lost the plot wrt women’s rights?

[Lion400]

Does Starmer really underestimate women this much??

‘Would you vote for a party that promised to let men parade around bollock-naked in women’s changing rooms?

Or a party that was alarmingly blasé about gay kids being ‘corrected’ with drugs and surgery?

Or a party that threatened to clamp down on thoughtcriminals who refer to people with penises and testicles – you know, men – as men?

If not, then don’t vote Labour in the upcoming General Election. Because it’s possible it will pursue all of these petty tyrannical policies’

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/03/13/tyranny-in-drag/

You said we all know, I’m afraid I don’t! Who on earth are they?

Some posters feel far safer discussing black and white extremes and seem unable to contemplate any form of compromise or balance of competing rights.

That blind spot makes debating pretty fruitless.

Oh god quit with the pointless swipes. They are meaningless.

You’ve built up some idea based on nothing. It’s your issue entirely. The insults are silly.

Of course it’s not just me, I’m entirely grateful to other women who speak up especially those who do so at personal cost.

I’m also grateful to women on FWR who speak plainly on the issues, which is where I read up on this.

All that together means we are getting somewhere, and I’m relieved that’s the case.

You want a list of names? Go and do your own research.

😂 what? I don’t know who you are talking about. If I knew who you are talking about it would help.

Go and do your own research.

Ahhhhh, that favourite phrase of the person who's lost the argument!

@Grapesarenottheonlyfruit, you'd probably get answers about Tory policies and how well they're doing on threads about the Tories, as weird as that may seem. Plus, bearing in mind many of us have said we won't be voting Tory, that should convey our feelings about them to you. Not that we have to justify ourselves or how we vote to you.

How many have you asked? How many might feel very worried about the push to strip women of their rights, while also feeling too vulnerable to speak up because of the appalling way that people have been intimidated on this issue? Largely from the left, I have to say (and I don’t like saying that, as a lefty, but it is true).

If you’re fearful about becoming a social pariah and losing your job and income, you not very likely to speak freely to anyone, let alone someone so enthusiastic about Labour.

Tell me you don't go to the gym without telling me you don't go to the gym. You'll have to be very brave now, but people don't just get changed there, they even take showers, and they certainly don't do it with clothes on. HTH.

Isn't it well established that's it's 6 plus socks?! 🤔🤣

My husband is really angry too. Bit weird to think only a few women care about this issue.

I think it's fair to say there's plenty of intimidation on both sides and next to no tolerance for differing views. And imo anyway, that doesn't help matters in the slightest.

I have no idea who to vote for.

However, I cannot see how a party can improve the lives of women and girls when they aren't even able to accurately define them.

I think both options are shit and neither actually care about single mums, hungry kids, social care etc.

Hmm - there's only one side I'm aware of that picket women's meetings, issues threats of physical violence, make rape threats, intimidate women in the street, drown them out speaking with megaphones. Although to be fair there are a number of women with a history of stickering and tying ribbons to lamp posts which of course are deeply dangerous and subversive activities. 😎

Intimidation from GC women? When?

I'm certainly not defending any of that behaviour whatsoever. I detest the vitriol in the debate though, and the more there is the worse it gets. Some people seem to forget/disregard/flat out don't care that there are human beings at the heart of this. Trans is not an easy or comfortable concept for most people to wrap their heads around and that's fair enough. It's also clearly concerning for women re safe spaces. Some of the bile being spewed however reminds me of the stuff that was said during the marriage referendum regarding gay people having children. It was vile, cruel, inaccurate flat out lies. And I don't see how that kind of discourse benefits anyone.

Pretty much every thread on here has some passing negative mention of trans people.

Don’t forget the punching old lady in the face incident in NZ..

I don’t see that. I see anger about women losing rights, but that is different.

What I was actually talking about was real world consequences. Not just one board in one forum. The stuff that’s actually happening. Mobs shouting at women speakers. People assaulting elderly women who dare to speak up. Doxxing of people in the hope they lose their jobs. Complaints to the police to get women arrested and taken away from their families. Loss of jobs and incomes. Women sports played losing titles and income to those with the advantage of a male body. Not a few rude words on Mn.

Well I haven't come across much of what you've listed there. So I suppose my viewpoint would be coloured by my own experience there. I would be in agreement where sport is concerned, that would be apples and oranges.

Thank you for answering.

Of course, I agree that it isn't your place to tell other people who to vote for. It isn't mine either.

But you do seem to be very invested in telling other people who not to vote for. Surely you must have an alternative in mind? Or are you saying that you consider all of the other options to be equal as far as women's rights are concerned?

Personally, I don't find the "anyone but Labour" position convincing. It comes across more as a kind of kneejerk party political bias rather than a reasoned position based on a thorough analysis of which party or parties might actually deliver more rights for women.

Blimey, whew have you been over the last few years? Do you not read or watch the news?

No, I'm quite the ignoramus. Your post is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. A complete inability to have anything approaching a civilised discussion about this issue. It doesn't further the cause, it serves to polarise.

No wonder you think there's intimidation etc everywhere if that post is your idea of uncivilised! Either you're hypersensitive or into hyperbole.

Some people find intelligent women, who are presenting well-researched and evidenced posts, containing clarity and reason, in a confident way quite intimidating. Thank god they exist though, as I think more people have found them interesting than intimidating and those posts have opened many people's eyes to the reality of the situation.

Do you mean the Wales I live in, with the democratically elected Labour government, that has been voted in to power since the devolution? Do you mean the Wales with free prescription and free hospital parking? Do you mean the Wales with safer roads since the introduction of the 20mph speed limit in previously 30mph areas? Do you mean the Wales that gets underfunded by the Barnett formula? The Wales that had and continues to have its resources stripped and communities hollowed out by the English?

I was listening to an economist talk about how Labour would get a bump in funding which was pretty much what I’ve posted

I do think it’s a great shame that insults such as those below happen, maybe we need better economics education so baseless attacks aren’t the response

Go and do your own research.

Ahhhhh, that favourite phrase of the person who's lost the argument!

The favourite argument of someone prolifically posting on this very thread who very famously asserted some ridiculous “fact” and responded “Google it” when asked for evidence. Isn’t that right @EasternStandard? I’m sure you remember.

It’s pretty much the only answer when asked a ridiculous, unanswerable question by someone trying to be clever.