Is Angela Raynor a liar or is it all anti Labour media bias?

[CormorantStrikesBack]

I’m well aware how anti Labour a lot of the main stream media seem to be so I wasn’t paying much attention previously to all the stuff about how she should have paid capital gains tax on her house, etc. she was adamant that she didn’t need to.

So it seems like she said it was her main residence so not liable for capital gains tax. But her husband and kids lived in a house a short distance away apparently for the first five years of their marriage which is unusual. A neighbour who lived next to her “husband’s” house said it was the main family home and Angela definitely lived there.

I’ll be sad if she has lied. Always thought she was on the side of the ordinary person. I guess the police/tax man might have a hard time proving anything though regardless of the neighbour’s statement. If all bills, etc were in the individual names there’s no evidence.

Imagine if AR had never bought and sold her council house and was still renting it. The Mail would be shrieking about that instead:

Shameless Rayner earns £86,584 a year, and lives in house subsidised by tax payer!

As already pointed out the idea of selling houses to sitting tenants is separate form what Councils or Central Government do with the proceeds. It's failure to use that money to build new stock that's the real issue since the eighties.

RTB wasn't Thatcher's idea, lots of Councils allowed it before she was PM. Her point was to set up a structure that compelled sales.

That clip.is shocking. So much for integrity, transparency and accountability...

I think it is more that he was worried to be laughed at or being accused of wasting police time.

Thanks @IClaudine

@eveoha interesting that you can't follow my logic. Clearly plenty of other people have managed it given the thanks it got. I look forward to you stopping attacking my posts.

Right to buy was an old idea of Tony Benn. However he said the money obtained should go back into social housing for others. Right to buy would have been much less destructive had it been like that.

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Teddleshon · 11/03/2024 09:20
What’s Jeremy Hung alleged to have done that would be illegal?

Dis he not “forget” to pay cg when he sold several flats?

Perhaps her having the political nous to know that Local Authority housing is/was built not for profit but for those who can’t or don’t meet Building Society’s criteria - and that by buying and selling on she was profiteering at the public expense

You know she bought her house in 2007 when she was a care worker?

Which thread is that?

Oh @DuncinToffee here you go again, pointing out inconvenient truths. Don't you know that AR wasn't ever a care worker, she just got into the field to fulfil her dream of becoming a union rebel router and left wing political witch?

Do witches get sainthoods?

Apologies for forgetting myself with those pesky facts

I truly hope AR is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing. Her story is actually really inspiring and she seems to connect well with voters.

But it does appear that there are some questions to answer as at face value it could very easily be interpreted that she was creative with he claims of occupancy. Given her unofficial position as the XL Bully to any hint of Tory impropriety, she'll need to be completely cleared to avoid the damaging moniker of hypocrite. In the real world, I think there are a fair chunk of us who would be similarly creative to her alleged actions if we thought we would save a few quid in tax. The problem is we wouldn't all act as attack dogs to others doing the same, even if on a grander scale, and look to take a position in one of the great offices of state.

Hopefully, the truth will out and it'll be found that she did nothing wrong, or got bad advice, or made a genuine mistake and we can move on and have proper political debates of substance. But I can't stand all these posts that excuse her because of some poorly understood stuff about Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset Capital, or Rishi Sunak's wife's fathers cousins mate and PPE or whatever. This is about AR and her suitability for high office. If you feel there is a case to answer for a Tory scandal, report it to the papers, take your evidence to the police, and even start your own mumsnet thread!

Of course you are, you'd rather a Tory Govt wouldn't you?

You re now attacking her character and politics, ignoring the fact she didn't have the financial security she now enjoys and wasn't even an MP.

RTB raised the standard in some estates, people would take pride in their properties, clean up the garden etc and councils started to crack down on troublesome families and rent arrears.

What was wrong with the scheme was that sold promises weren't replaced and social housing was effectively privatised with no rent control but i think you know all this......

@Everanewbie Its not wrong to point out the unfairness of how the media treat Tory and Labour politicians, especially women, it is after all in the title of thread.

So far after 30 pages, no one has come up with a single piece of firm evidence against her, its all opinion or suspicion plus due to time limits, its not even possible to prosecute.

@

In the Times from Nick Boles, former Tory MP

Excellent letter.

I've got a couple of issues with your comment here. Firstly, the criminal convictions threshold is not the level of proof we should hold those in, or seeking high office to. Beyond reasonable doubt may be needed to send someone to prison, IMO balance of probabilities should be the order of the day when it comes to politicians impropriety. If a statute of limitation applies, that doesn't mean what she did was somehow fine, it just means criminal punishments can't be handed down.

Secondly, well there does seem to be enough evidence to at the very least, demand answers. We have several known facts as they are public record.

1. She sold a house for profit, and claim occupancy relief on the chargeable gain.
2. At the time of selling, and in several years leading up to the sale, she was married to a man who had his own home.
3. A married couple can only designate one home as their main residence for CGT calculation purposed.

We have circumstantial evidence and witness claims that her brother lived in the house and referred to his sister as 'landlord' and she and her children were not living there. There are also tweets that refer to her husbands house as "home". While some married couples do live apart, logic suggests the most obvious answer here is that she was living elsewhere and letting out the house, and the occupancy statement was a successful attempt to avoid paying the CGT that was due.

So yes, there is a case to answer, and we're all ears while AR stays silent.

As I said, I don't hate the player, I hate the game, in real life I think a huge percentage of people would do the same. But she's the attack dog in chief. "You Tory scum, you picked that fiver off the floor when it wasn't yours, resign!!!!" So she needs to be spotless or she's a massive hypocrite and needs to resign.

Nick Boles supports Labour now.

I had a lot of time for Boles. He was very sensible, and I thought principled, when he was in the Tory Party. But I think his present point of view on Rayner can be happily disregarded.

1. She sold a house for profit, and claim occupancy relief on the chargeable gain.

No we don’t know whether she made a profit.

She may have assumed she was eligible for Private Residence Relief, without realising that because she was married she would have to either nominate the property or establish that it was their main residence because both she and her husband lived there. Had they not been married, they would have been eligible for 2 x relief. Lord Ashcroft would have no doubt obtained tax planning advice.

Her neighbours are completely irrelevant.

I absolutely agree that she would be all over this if a Conservative MP were accused of the same, but every time somebody mentions the neighbours it just highlights the fact that CGT legislation is confusing.

Oh ok

Next you are going to tell us he voted remain as well.........

@Merrymouse

We know there was a gross gain as the amount paid on purchase and what she received on sale are matters of record at the Land Registry.

What we don't know is the net gain after allowances etc though Dan neidle. linked at the outset, has made an informed guess.

Like you, I think a cock up with PRR is most likely. If that is the case though it's a mystery why she can't just hold her hand up.

@Merrymouse well public records show what she paid for it is less than what she sold it for, so unless she spent tens of thousands on it, literally half the property value, there was a profit.

And I don't think her neighbours are irrelevant. In a trial, their evidence would likely be brought in front of a jury. Maybe not believed as fact verbatim, but considered at least.

Maybe she misunderstood the rules, maybe her circumstances were such that some quirk of the system allowed them to have two houses and avoid CGT, maybe she was extremely clever, or maybe she was deceitful. I hope we find out and that it clears her completely. But going to ground like she is and refusing to publish her "advice" and so on really doesn't have the look of someone who has nothing to hide.

He did indeed. Another sign of a sensible Tory.