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Politics

The Westminster Arms

988 replies

DustyDiamond · 21/01/2020 15:07

As requested, I have contacted MNHQ via the contact provided in the deletion message

Welcome to The Westminster Arms!

🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷

A non-partisan politics pub thread for political chit chat....!!

Please stick within MN talk guidelines - any posts which you think may have crossed the line, please report rather than getting into scraps on thread 😠

Political punch-ups are soooo last decade - ain't nobody got time for that πŸ₯ŠβŒ

Be nice! Be respectful!

S'ok to slag off politicians, but not other posters 🍻

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EpicIndividual · 21/01/2020 16:09

I’m rooting for Nandy. I don’t agree with her on very much at all, however, I do think she could be a unifying force for Labour.

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Coppersulphate · 21/01/2020 16:14

Thanks Singing,
That is a surprise. I thought they would go got RWD.
Good for them
If I had a vote it would go to Nandy although I don't think she will be a force at thevdispatch box. But, as I said I don't think people care about that.

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Thistimetomorrow · 21/01/2020 16:23

So, we may yet get a female Labour Leader. Maybe have a Westminster Arms flutter on the result. I’m rubbish at betting so don’t listen to any of my tips!

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SingingLily · 21/01/2020 16:32

There was some sort of falling-out between John McDonnell and RLB a few weeks ago, Copper. It was to do with her choice of campaign manager, whose name eludes me. Up until that point, she was considered his protΓ©gΓ©e. It was surprising because the bloke she chose was as left as John McDonnell in his politics, if not more so.

What I took from that has been reflected in RL conversations with everyday Momentum members (anecdotal, I know).

There is a hard core that regards political purity as the Holy Grail and when required to even say the word "electable", do so in much the way that Lady Bracknell said, "Handbag? You were born in a handbag?" Total disdain.

Others see that political purity will not bring power. Only electability will do that. I think John McD is in the second camp. He wanted RLB to appear electable but she kind of shot that fox with her choice of advisors. So he distanced himself from her. Probably also realised that his Koenig support was not altogether helpful either.

Lisa Nandy is arguably as left as RLB but has taken the electability bit to heart. She comes across as someone you might enjoy a natter with, even if you didn't subscribe wholly to their politics.

Kier Starmer is already confirmed on the final ballot paper. I think Lisa Nandy will be the second name.

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SingingLily · 21/01/2020 16:33

Koenig?

That's a random word and I have no idea why it got in there.

It's a new tablet. I'm still teaching it who's boss Grin

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ommmward · 21/01/2020 16:39

I'm interested in this lobby spat going on with Guido Fawkes. Didn't even really know what the lobby was until this week... The spat certainly raises questions about horses' mouths and spin and being in the instant mass communications age, and what actually IS the role of journalism in terms of information conveyance versus interpretation.

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time4chocolate · 21/01/2020 16:42

Just back from work - thanks for the new thread Dusty, onwards and upwards🍷🍷🍷.

Interesting Singing that you think Lisa Nandy might be the second name (my preferred option if I had to choose) but up to now I would have had it as KS and RLB.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/01/2020 16:45

Did anyone read the Jess Phillips web chat that MN did yesterday? All posters wanted to know about were Trans women. So much so that MN banned any questions about it. Jess did address the issue and insisted they were 'real' women and should be allowed in all women's private spaces. There were several posters even saying until the issue was sorted they have no choice but to vote Tory. I didn't realise it was such a big issue.

Lisa Nandy would be my choice out of the remaining 4 but also think she wouldn't fair well against Boris at the dispatch box. Its RLB v Starmer and the bookies have all the money on the serious, professional looking man.

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NiceGuyNeddie · 21/01/2020 16:54

.

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Coppersulphate · 21/01/2020 16:56

I did go through the webchat with JP yesterday and noticed all the stuff about real women. Her view was never going to be electable.

RLB has momentum behind her but that doesn't say that each individual momentum member will vote for her.
Interesting times. We shall wait and see.

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NiceGuyNeddie · 21/01/2020 16:59

I wonder what mud will be found to sling at each candidate by the Tories and right-wing press?

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ommmward · 21/01/2020 17:02

It was only about 5,000 momentum members who said yes please to RLB at this point, wasn't it? And there must be thousands and thousands of them.

It's quite hard to imagine what a successful opposition would look like at the moment, so soon after such a big election victory, and at the moment when the spending taps are being turned on (i don't really understand why the taps can be turned on now when they couldn't be a year or two ago - have the finances shifted, or was the "spend as little as possible to get the deficit down" thing a May-Hammond priority but isn't a Johnson-Javid one? Or is the deficit no longer terrifyingly high?)

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EpicIndividual · 21/01/2020 17:02

β€œI did go through the webchat with JP yesterday and noticed all the stuff about real women. Her view was never going to be electable.”

Agreed. It’s such a contentious issue, so I do get that it’s a difficult issue to navigate for politicians but she failed the MN test there... 😬 It’s a proven vote loser. For some reason I thought she was actually quite GC, don’t know why I thought that though?... I must have gotten mixed up along the way! πŸ€·πŸ»β€β™€οΈ

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/01/2020 17:06

Maybe only a few have voted for RLB so far. But are Momentum like every one else and wont be bothered getting involved until the actual decisive vote at the end?

i don't really understand why the taps can be turned on now when they couldn't be a year or two ago
We got mired in Brexit completely and almost nothing could be done until that was sorted. I think Boris has broken the deadlock and we can now move forward on all fronts.

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EpicIndividual · 21/01/2020 17:06

β€œOr is the deficit no longer terrifyingly high?”

This, apparently. That was the argument made anyway, that austerity has had the desired effect, and money has now been recouped, along with cheaper borrowing capacity. Just for clarity, that’s not my opinion specifically, just the argument that has been given over recent months.

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hospitalityinspector · 21/01/2020 17:07

Large G&T please LL and one for yourself.

I read the JP webchat Walking It didn't go down well did it? She can't have been buoyed by that reception.

The thing I like about LN is her more measured approach. She doesn't appear to have the angry gene. Not sure she's prime minister material, but then I said the same about Bojo.

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EpicIndividual · 21/01/2020 17:10

I agree Hospitality, I don’t think she is PM material either, but I’m not sure that’s what they need RN anyway, they could really do with a good moderate caretaker, a unifying force, that will allow breathing space for a new approach to develop. Well, that’s my opinion anyway! πŸ˜‚

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ommmward · 21/01/2020 17:11

Presumably it was pretty hard to get agreement to spend money with minority government as well? Or doesn't it work like that? (Well, parliament has to vote yes to a budget, doesn't it, so I suppose that will have influenced the timidity over spending).

Gawd, I hope they keep the deficit low. National debt on a huge scale is really scary.

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Coppersulphate · 21/01/2020 17:12

Ommm, I get the impression it was Hammond who wouldn't spend but I may be wrong.
I don't think Boris cares about the deficit and Javid wants to keep his job.
But I think it is great news that they are starting to spend.

I just hope they spend on infrastructure in the north including the transpennine rail link.

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DustyDiamond · 21/01/2020 17:14

If our esteemed LL would like me to provide breakfast, happy to. I'm knocking the dinner menu on the head though...

Knock yourself out!! Would be very much appreciated 😍😍
As Epic said - I'm a terrible host πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

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EpicIndividual · 21/01/2020 17:14

β€œGawd, I hope they keep the deficit low. National debt on a huge scale is really scary.”

Agreed, as ever, balance is the key!

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ommmward · 21/01/2020 17:15

Really hard for ant political party to create a coherent and attractive platform right now, because there are so many non-intersecting issues.

Be woke, lose lots of votes. Be non-woke, lose another lot.
Buy into environmental crisis, lose loads of votes. Don't buy in, lose lots of votes.
Be Brexity, lose votes. Be anti-brexity, lose another lot.

And that's before you even try to tally any of that lot with what to do with an aging population and all the stuff that political parties used to differentiate themselves with.

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ommmward · 21/01/2020 17:17

🐜 political party. That was an interesting typo.

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DustyDiamond · 21/01/2020 17:19

Going to go πŸ‘€ at the Guido Lobby Spat thing Ommm...

Re Labour leadership - I'm glad Jess has dropped out
She's too entrenched in identity politics as a pp said

I'm rooting for Lisa Nandy - I actually like her, and I think she'd grow into the leadership role pretty well
With a sound & experienced shadow cabinet behind her, she'd be good a headline figure, overseeing & bigger picture stuff
Heavyweights like Keir, Yvette Cooper, Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn etc would be great in shadow cabinet (far better than current lot... πŸ™„)

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SingingLily · 21/01/2020 17:51

I think she'd grow into the leadership role pretty well

Yes, that's my thought too, Dusty. I don't agree with everything she says but she speaks sense often enough to warrant listening to. In turn, she gives the clear impression that she is listening too, and that's where she has a massive advantage over some of the others.

I think that if she is elected, she will make a few schoolgirl errors but that's entirely allowable. However, I also think she will learn from her errors pronto, digest, adjust and move forward. That's why she's worth a second look.

Ommmward, yes, only about 4900 Momentum members selected RLB and that was on a purely binary ballot: RLB Yes or RLB No. It seemed an odd way for the membership to proceed. That might be why there was such a low return rate.

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