Shy tory

[bigspagbol]

Any shy tories out there?
Just to get this straight - I believe in helping people just not people being forced/paid to help people. If it doesn't come from the heart it's not worth having.
I feel like people don't think I like people. On the contrary. I believe the benefit system keeps poor people poor.
Self interest is healthy and only when you have everything you need can you give to other people.
I just thinks it makes for a better society.

We'd be putting a plaster over a gash if we didn't have austerity. We are paying for the banker's mistakes. The government bailed them out - labour. True capitalism would have seen them suffer - and everyone else for that matter but now we haven't learned our lessons.

I don't believe in austerity actually. What I'm saying is we need people to stop complaining and work hard. Stop feeling sorry for themselves. I just wanted to see if anyone felt the same as me and was called selfish , narcissistic and was told I hated disabled people.

Austerity is the plaster over the gash.

I don't think someone who is a Tory is narcissistic.
The problem with austerity is it actually shrinks economies, reduces opportunities and makes the very rich richer.

Britain's economy has shrunk in the last 10 years ?

Do people think life is much better in other countries ? Which ones ?

Surveys of the happiest countries in the world put the Scandinavians at the top year after year. They tend to have higher ratings of wealth equality as well. Their governments' economic policies are a world away from austerity and trickle-down economics.

I favour the Scandinavian model and would willingly pay more tax to achieve that.
I seriously cannot get my head round people on minimum wage voting Tory. Although there are loads round here. If they were anything like the One Nation small c Tories of old I would understand it A LOT more. But this bunch are disaster capitalists who don't care about anyone else. Theresa May was the first Tory Home Secretary to lose support of the Police that I know of. And she's been disastrous ever since. And she's the best one for the job! The Tories are a MUCH bigger mess than Labour.

Re the economy it depends how you think about it

"Real wage growth was the worst since the 1860s, and the Governor of the Bank of England described it as a lost decade.[92] Wages fell by 10% in real terms in the eight years to 2016, whilst they grew across the OECD by an average of 6.7%.[93] For 2015 as a whole,[94] the current account deficit rose to a record high of 5.2% of GDP (£96.2bn),[95] the highest in the developed world.[96] In Q4 2015, it exceeded 7%, a level not witnessed during peacetime since records began in 1772.[97] The UK relied on foreign investors to plug the shortfall in its balance of payments.[98] Homes had become less affordable, a problem exacerbated by QE, which kept house prices 22% higher than they would otherwise have been, and equities 25% higher, according to the BoE's own analysis.[99]"

22% of the population below the poverty line.

I don't think people generally look at Sweden as a country they want to be like. You may, but I think a political shake up is coming in those countries in the next few decades.

Given the acknowledged uselessness of politicians giving them a much larger role in our lives and more money seems crazy to me. But knock yourself out.

I'm sorry mslucy but imagine I gave you £100 per week and mr jones down the road was working for £100 per week. It wouldn't be fair.

So.......it is just tough shit then for my DD and I? We shouldn't get anything. Not because I don't want to work, but because I can't?

Hmmmm, lets see. So what, precisely should we live on? Must be be destitute because someone else who COULD improve their circumstances, and get a better paid job, only earns £100 a week, when I lost my career and DON'T HAVE THE CHOICE to improve my circumstances?

Interesting. As a Tory, I am sure you are familiar with Churchill? Who famously said that we must give ladders for all to climb, and a safety net below which noone must fall? Yet you arent even a fan of the safety net, because it "isn't fair"?

I don't think it is being a Tory that is your problem. There are many who have compassion for those who are unable to work. Your problem is more utter ignorance and ill thought out politics, completely indicative of the nasty, selfish society so prevalent at the moment.

You say if you had a million you would want a billion. I don't think it is me which is the grasping one is it?

Oh and by the way, I paid more in tax per week than your hypothetical man earnt per week......for years. Yet you expect me to have no return on that? LOL.

You are only 32. Let's hope life doesn't swing you any sucker punches. If they do, then I am more than happy for all the tax I paid over the years to give you a decent standard of living. It is called compassion. Maybe you could try it? Just as an experiment?

I don't think people generally look at Sweden as a country they want to be like.

Really? High life expectancy, high literacy rates, low rates of absolute poverty and child poverty, low socio-economic inequality (albeit not as low as it could be, but still pretty good on a global scale), excellent access to healthcare and education, functioning democracy and one of the wealthiest countries in the world? You think people from eg Burkina Faso would look at all that and say “ugh no, who wants that kind of thing”?

I think you’re getting a bit mixed up between “which countries’ current governments have policies that I personally prefer” and “which countries are doing well by various metrics”. Sweden’s economic model isn’t the one I’d go for in a perfect world, but I’m not so naive as to think that makes the place an unenviable hellhole by global standards.

"On the contrary. I believe the benefit system keeps poor people poor. "

The changes to the welfare system in the UK are killing people...

Loads of people look towards Sweden as a model! Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a video repeatedly shared on my FB feed comparing parental rights in Sweden compared to the UK - 48 months combined parental leave at 80% pay, virtually free universal childcare. I know a lot of working parents in the UK who would like that.

Taxes are high in Sweden, but people there are still much happier than here because of the social benefits that are paid for via that taxation.

That's a whole separate thread of course.

Oh and by the way, you know how a lot of us disabled people complain about the perpetual hoops we have to jump through? Because getting benefits is hard?

Guess how long I was in my last review for? 10 minutes. And reawarded for three years. Because the Capita assessors had compassion and could see there is no chance that I can work.

I find it breathtaking that a Capita assessor has more compassion and empathy than you seem to display.

Do you actually pay tax on a minimum wage? If not, you do realise that the country is subsidising you? For the NHS, policing etc. And you presumably COULD better yourself, by promotion, further education etc.

How is the subsidising someone who has the choice to improve their circumstances, but doesn't pay much tax (as they are in a minimum wage job) fair? When compared with paying out a decent amount to someone, who has paid a shitload of tax, but now can't work?

And even if I had NEVER worked because of disability, there will always be a difference between us.....you have choices to make more of yourself. I don't.

There was a famous quote - cannot remember it right now but along the lines of it is the biggest ever con to get working class people to vote Conservative.

Considering they believe ultimately in the privatization of healthcare etc you all better get saving for your insurance...

Mslucy dont talk to me about compassion you have no idea the work i've done for minimum wage over the years. We need a pay rise but we cant afford one as a country.

I have nothing more to give.

We can! The rich don't want us to have ones we are a prosperous country but trickle down economics is a lie. Want to stimulate the economy? Give more money to the bottom 25% who will spend it.
There is no need for austerity. It has made things worse!

bigspagbol and likewise. You have no idea what I did for years. Working my way up and dealing with people who were abused, mentally ill, homeless, addicts, youth offenders.

Admittedly it wasn't at anything close to minimum wage, because I came from a very poor background in the most deprived town in Britain. And I got myself out, went to university and made damn sure I would always have a professional qualification to fall back on.

I will tell you that you lack compassion, because I have seen all sectors of society and I can assure you that most people, irrespective of circumstances, do not have the "I'm alright Jack" attitude that you have.

Attitudes such as you have described are indicative of a lack of empathy, compassion and critical thought. Coupled with a lack of knowledge of fundamental economics. If these are the qualities our society is spewing out, then change cannot come quick enough.

Ms lucy but I did not personally attack you. I've said nothing about your situation. I do feel sorry for you , I also feel sorry that I am not in a position to help.

I didn't say that Sweden was an unenviable hell hole, although bits of it certainly are. I don't agree that the state should fund universal child care for a start. And the claim Swedes are "much happier" than Brits is nonsense. Sweden has many social and political problems, their politics is changing. I would say on an individual level, and this is just my opinion, Scandinavians are generally more tolerant of large government and tend to accept more state control over their lives than the British have done. Sweden is taking a turn to the right now that people are starting to object to what the government has done, the next 50 years will be very interesting.

OP I think that you’re in way over your head.

I don’t know if it’s a lack of critical thinking or maybe a cognitive thing but you need to stop.

It’s painful to read and some of the things you are saying are frankly cruel.

On the one hand you think it’s not “fair” on working people for the state to help people who are too disabled to work themselves. You’re now saying that it’s not your fault as you are not in a position to help.

That’s why we pay tax so that the state can help the vulnerable and ultimately prevent societal breakdown.

I can’t y eerstand how anyone can’t see through the current Government’s rhetoric. I can’t inagine ever voting Tory.

Not sure who I’ll vote for instead mind you, we are bloody leaderless on all sides .

bigspagbol I don't want your help! I want you to open your eyes and look at the world around you.

If you became unable to work tomorrow, say you got severe MS, and were a single parent who couldn't work, wouldn't you be a tad pissed off that through no fault of your own, you would be poor? In the sixth richest country in the world?

And you HAVE personally attacked me......and all other disabled people, by saying we should always have less money than the lowest earner or it "isn't fair".

When you go out and vote for that, you are personally attacking me and all the others like me. You do realise that being disabled comes with additional expenses? Maybe needing cleaners, food delivery services, childcare if that can't be managed alone. Often unable to drive, and DEFINITELY not (in my case) able to stand at a bus stop, so the only way of getting around is taxis.

Now imagine needing all that, on less money than the lowest paid worker?

Voting for austerity, which the UN has stated has is a failed project, implemented for ideological reasons, which has failed to save any money whatsoever, is personally attacking people like me.

If you want bankers to have paid the price for the crash in 2008, then the last thing you should be voting for is entrenched neo liberal economics (New Labour were still neo liberal).

I hope life treats you well.

I think its awful! But i also think that it's awful that if someone wants another child and cant afford one because taxes are too high - that this is bad too.
What do you suggest?

bertiesgal

Unless you think that the UK is an unmitigated disaster and hell hole, you must concede that the conservative party have been in government for the majority of the recent political history of this country. How has this all been achieved when you claim those same people are evil, leaderless and etc.

Is it all just luck ? A coincidence ? Them not being very good at being evil ?

You are being rather hyperbolic and probably imagine Sweden to be some kind of utopia that we should all aspire to be more like and ignore the history of our own country.

You see how crap our politicians are, give them more money and more power ? No thanks.

Evil? Sweden?

Have you confused me with someone else