Shy tory

[bigspagbol]

Any shy tories out there?
Just to get this straight - I believe in helping people just not people being forced/paid to help people. If it doesn't come from the heart it's not worth having.
I feel like people don't think I like people. On the contrary. I believe the benefit system keeps poor people poor.
Self interest is healthy and only when you have everything you need can you give to other people.
I just thinks it makes for a better society.

53rd way. Since when is it the government's job to make life easier for people? This is the baffling sentence.

@DippyAvocado It's great to see someone that can look at what the Labour Party has to offer as a whole, even if you dislike the current leader. Any Labour government will be lead by a team, and a team that listens to its constituents. There are some excellent younger MPs coming through who will can make so much difference to our country. I feel the same about the LibDems, putting aside their leadership there are some promising younger members coming through that would work well with Labour and have similar aspirations for a fairer country.

@bigspagbol Are you saying that you don't think disabled people should have a decent standard of living, that they should always have less than others? That's what you appear to be saying, but I wanted to clarify in case I misunderstood.

I'm not saying that they should have a lesser or better standard. I would treat them the same as everyone else. That is true equality.

Dippy thanks for posting that article from the Guardian. I agree with everything in it. Sad Lib Dem voter now living in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, I have wondered for a while if I should join the Tory party at this moment of horror and try to transform it into the Lib Dems (since they seem to be in the wilderness forever). I would probably lower the average age at the meetings by 30 years as well.

Also - why should i see past labour's faults ? The party should be in tip top condition! If it wants to lead ! I can see past the leader's faults - are you crazy?

Xiao do it please

Since when is it the government's job to make life easier for people?

Good question. What do you think the government's job is? I think it's to make the country a good place to live and to work, through deciding how public services are run and what public money is spent on. I wouldn't say 'making people's lives easier' is part of that, but 'not actively making lots of people's lives harder and more miserable' is.

What do you think they're there for?

But you said that if a working person is earning £100 then a disabled person should not have as much as them, essentially that a disabled person is a lower class. Is that not what you meant?

I think you should follow the golden rule, do as you would be done by. Tories cannot imagine they would ever have to live like the people whose lives are affected by their decisions on things like benefits. If they did, the policies would change. It's a worldview that relies on a lack of social mobility and believing people bring their suffering on themselves.

However, by definition you can't have left wing politics without right wing politics, and it's true that without some incentive for personal gain economic effort is reduced and people are less hopeful and innovative. It's true that living on benefits is not exactly anyone's dream life.

The real problem at the moment is that Tories appeal to small 'c' conservatives who stand for things like community and individual initiative, but the donors and the influence is all from the harshest capitalists who want to make profits any which way and don't care if they gut communities in the process.

I would be a One Nation Tory along the lines of Harold Macmillan (and Disraeli) though. He had 350,000 houses built in a year, Keynesian fiscal stimulus, built on the NHS established by Labour
rather than starving it, etc. Austerity to end immediately, huge investment in clean energy etc etc and an end to this huge self-inflicted wound of Brexit.

I'm not sure the members at my local Conservative association would like me very much!!!

And are you saying that on you minimum wage job you don't claim tax credits or child benefit? Do you use the NHS?

only when you have everything you need can you give to other people

But by your reckoning, nobody ever has everything they want and need i.e millionaires want to be billionaires therefore nobody would ever give anything to anybody?

That’s clearly untrue given the amount Children In Need raises or that there are donations to food banks which I doubt is raised solely from billionaires.

You can’t just pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you haven’t got boots in the first place.

Your kind of selfishness reinforces the need for progressive taxation to at least attempt some redistribution of wealth to the vulnerable in society.

Unless you've got a partner earning lots of money or some other income stream, then earning minimum wage, you are probably a taker from the state.
Child benefit, education, health care etc all adds up.

@Xiaoxiong You're far too progressive and community minded to be a Tory!

Member - some people would be satisfied. You just have to make yourself happy.

Yeah but bombardier I went to private schools, worked in finance, kids at private schools, support some country sports, I don't believe transwomen are women, I think that wealth taxes (not income taxes) are regressive etc. I disagree with much of the last Labour manifesto and I do think they have a problem with antisemitic rhetoric, not just Corbyn but the rank and file, councillors etc. And I find Momentum utterly terrifying and not far off Red Guard kind of behaviour, ideologically policing thought etc. The moment Jeremy Corbyn said in the leadership election that he would reopen the coal mines - and, at the same time, Arthur Scargill said that he was a Leaver because then we could reopen the coal mines!!! was the moment I knew a Corbyn led Labour would forever be fighting the battles of the past and not those of the future like climate change.

So if Labour is stuck in the past, and the Tories are falling apart, then why not try and rebuild the Tories in my own image, haha 😂

It's not selfish to do the things you want. It is selfish to want other people to
Do the things you want.

Since the end of the war, Britain has mostly been governed by the conservative party. Do people think life is much better in other countries ? Which ones ? That life is pretty good in the UK is a coincidence ? It must be since if the Tories are "evil" we still have a decent society.

I don't mean they are lower class - disabled people! If by that definition - they have less money. Maybe so? Doesn't mean I want them
To be!

I believe the benefit system keeps poor people poor.
The state it is in now, you are actually right, but I suspect you mean that it should be reduced rather than improved.

Self interest is healthy and only when you have everything you need can you give to other people.
I just thinks it makes for a better society.

You have no idea. The fact that you talk about self-interest in a positive way and then society. "Self-interest" is simply a nice spin on "selfish", which in turn has been replaced by "narcissistic".

Why do people with minimum wage jobs vote tory? If the tories had of had their way, you wouldn't even be earning that.

Aspiration and motivation is good. Everyone needs the tools to be able to achieve their goals. If you are so "self-interested", you would realise that it would better for a better outcome for everyone.

To amend a quote "you have to choose your parents wisely to prosper in the UK". Where would Rees Muppet, Hameron and Boris the Buffoon be without their parents?

Elon - exactly!
I am fed up of ungrateful corbyn supporters. Fuck off.

I do realise a good outcome for all would be beneficial.

Do people think life is much better in other countries ? Which ones ?

Australia for one. Excellent health care, well-paid jobs (double that in the UK), money to save (not possible in the UK) and lovely house in a lovely surburb in a major city. Move back to the UK? Ha ha...strangely enough not one british person I have met here plans on doing that.

Beach bag 😂 australia has enough natural resources.

Do people think life is much better in other countries ? Which ones ?

Northern European social democracy countries, pretty good. Germany, pretty good by a lot of metrics, including keeping a thriving manufacturing sector. Also the UK under New Labour was doing better than it is today in many many ways - appreciate that the Tories aren't to blame for the global economy going boom in 2008 but we've had ten years of "austerity will work if we just give it a little bit longer!" and it's not exactly going swimmingly so far.