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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

I think the tories will lose

567 replies

ethanrayne · 31/05/2017 21:27

I actually thought they would win, and there was nothing anyone could do. Now I think they will lose.

OP posts:
sleepyowl12 · 01/06/2017 00:07

@coconutella, to add, here is the government fraud figures for DLA from 2009 to 2013 gained from a FOI.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dla_fraud

"The latest estimate of the amounts of Disability Living Allowance paid due to fraud is shown in the table below. It should be noted that, as well as fraud, there are other reasons for over and under payments such as errors by the Department and by the claimant, including the failure to report a change in the impact of their condition.
Year DLA Expenditure Fraud % of expenditure
2012/13 (Preliminary) £13.5bn £70m 0.5%
2011/12 £12.6bn £60m 0.5%
2010/11 £12.0bn £60m 0.5%

No system will have no fraud but with disability benefits it is low.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/06/2017 00:07

Nobody is suggesting that you be quiet, just that the ranting at people who have done you no harm, and whose political alliances you know nothing about stops anyone debating with you or taking any of your points on board.

RubyBluesey · 01/06/2017 00:07

Of course they wont lose!

much as I would like them to

Dawndonnaagain · 01/06/2017 00:07

Raven have you ever actually looked at the figures regarding fraud?
The people who are 'swinging the lead' are incredibly small.
People are dying due to the cuts. People are suffering due to the cuts. These things cannot be dismissed because it's not convenient to acknowledge them.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/06/2017 00:08

And yy re Brexit. I voted remain but frankly I almost wish I hadn't, given the amount of insults thrown by the remainers, calling them racist, thick etc. I was embarrassed for some of the posters

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/06/2017 00:10

idiots from the Tory party that thought they were really clever signing up to the Labour party to vote for Corbyn

Has anyone ever been shown to have done this? Or is it just more Labour fake news?

I don't think it has been proved. It's also contradictory- you can't on the one hand argue about how popular he is yet based on the numbers who voted for him yet on the other argue it is really Tory fifth columnists who voted for him.

Chaotica · 01/06/2017 00:10

10 point lead is two points down from yesterday. Which is down from the day before.

It is going in Labour's direction because people are waking up to the chaotic lack of substance which is Tory party policy (and May won't talk to anyone but her own supporters).

SemiNormal · 01/06/2017 00:10

sleepyowl12 - Do those figures include the administration/court costs of dealing with the fraudulant claims? Also the cost to the prison system (assuming any have been sent to prison over it)?

Killdora · 01/06/2017 00:13

Jesus!

Disablism alive and well I see.

Letschase the inconvinient disabled person, angry at being driven to extinction out. For being angry. Hmm

Anyone that votes Tory is harming disabled people by proxy.

Same as anyone that votes ukip probably doesn't have the friendliest intentions towards immigrants.

Ravenblack · 01/06/2017 00:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. We're removing this because it repeats a deleted post.

Vango · 01/06/2017 00:15

From The Week

At £1.3bn to £1.6bn, it appears outright benefit fraud accounts for less of a burden on the taxpayer than the £4.4bn officially assumed to be lost by (tax) evaders. So why, the government was asked this week, does it devote more resources to the former?

Anyone?

edwinbear · 01/06/2017 00:15

I look forward to reigniting this thread on June 9th. That is all.

ShoesHaveSouls · 01/06/2017 00:15

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them

That is untrue. Have you seen what people have to do to claim now? You have people with terminal cancer being declared fit for work, people committing suicide because their benefits have been stopped.

Still, much easier on the old conscience to think the way do. But you know, you may get ill one day.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/06/2017 00:15

That poster was ranting at people - fine but she can't expect people to just agree with her when she doesn't want a discussion

SemiNormal · 01/06/2017 00:16

People are dying due to the cuts. People are suffering due to the cuts. These things cannot be dismissed because it's not convenient to acknowledge them - One person dying in this country due to cuts is too many. I would think those suffering mental health problems are particularly vulnerable given the lack of mental health 'care'.
I do, however, think that those who commit any kind of benefit fraud should be dealt with most severely and that there needs to be ways of weeding them out. The financial abuse of a fragile system set up to support our most vulnerable is quie frankly disgusting and it needs addressing in a way that protects those who are vulnerable. Of course there are always going to be those who 'slip through the net' (fraud wise), but I think it's understandable that people are angry about them and want something done about it. If my own town is anything to go by then I suspect the number of people committing fraud well exceeds the official numbers.

GardenGeek · 01/06/2017 00:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Killdora · 01/06/2017 00:18

And yes, I still believe that it's people swinging the lead for so many years that has caused the problems. Be angry at them, not me

Even when people have been linking government figures showing otherwise?

Ravenblack · 01/06/2017 00:18

Yes @gardengeek things do turn nasty when you say things the far-left don't like. They could have said 'I disagree and think you are wrong.' But no, I get disability wished on me (NICE!) and also get called all sorts of nasty names and get accused of being 'disablist'

As I said, maybe I am disabled myself. How do they know? If I was, I wouldn't tell anyone here anyway. It's nothing to do with them.

Vango · 01/06/2017 00:20

Probably ever so slightly more true of the conservatives though?

Cakeahoy · 01/06/2017 00:20

I'd imagine I'd be ranting if I'd seen a friend die due to pointless disability cuts and was being told to calm down and be polite to the people saying

'Well be sun said there is loads of dossera getting it. Worth your mate dying to get them'

Even when the figures say otherwise Hmm

Ravenblack · 01/06/2017 00:22

Those figures mean nothing.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 01/06/2017 00:22

Youre not disabled Raven I dont think anyone thinks you are from the language youre choosing to use about disabled people so DFOD Hmm Biscuit

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 01/06/2017 00:22

But arse turned her anger onto everyone who dared question her. And that might make her feel better but it's hardly going to make people change their minds

Killdora · 01/06/2017 00:22

I'd imagine they'd think anyone who was actually disabled would have a bit more synphathy and a hell of a lot more knowledge about the system.

coconuttella · 01/06/2017 00:22

Arse

Thanks for the link to the stats. These show deaths, they don't show excess deaths which is presumably what you are claiming. I could provide stats giving the total number of school-aged children in U.K, alongside those that have died, and sadly it would be a high number, but on its own it wouldn't prove anything than 'humans are mortal'.

However, I accept that disabled people have had an unduly harsh time under this Government, but it's depressing that no party has really tackled this issue during the campaign.... an open goal for the opposition parties surely!