I think the tories will lose

[ethanrayne]

I actually thought they would win, and there was nothing anyone could do. Now I think they will lose.

Hasn't JC always been Eurosceptic? The Labour Party backed Remain because it was the will of the majority of its MPs. The fact that he stayed relatively silent on the matter is to his credit. He'd have been more of a laughing stock if he'd hitched his wagon to DC in my opinion

It did him no credit at all. He spent his entire career regularly defying his party and even as leader he still doesn't get the concept of supporting party policy.

Nobody was talking about "hitching his wagon" to Cameron. Cameron, Milliband and Clegg presented an effective , coherent and united front for Better Together. Corbyn failed miserably on Remain.

But you crack on with ranting at people who dare stick their head above the parapet. Because that kind of attitude is not going to change people's opinions. It just makes you look a little unhinged which I'm sure was not your intention as I assume you have experience of their disability policies, given your strength of feeling

People are dying. They will continue dying. Including a very close friend of mine.

How exactly should I word my posts?

It will make no difference anyway.

Government's own figures said fraud for the disability benefit, DLA, now replaced by PIP was a meagre 0.5%. Secondly, as said on here the govt are paying the private companies now doing assessments more than any savings.

I'm a Remainers and I would have considered him to be a hypocrite if he'd tried to convince me, hence Alan Johnson.

The kind of people that can ignore facts about people dying, the money wasted and not saved (even though that apparently is why people are dying) wouldn't be turned by any sort of post on the anyway.

So I'll vent my anger thanks, I don't have to politely accept you must care for disabled people, just not much right now.

Word them how you like. But don't be surprised if people disregard your posts because you are so angry about it. I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry but turning on anyone who addresses you isn't the way to put your point across.

And I don't make a habit of saying who I vote for because it's a private matter so please don't bother turning your anger onto me

@arseofinfinity I can't be arsed to debate with someone who just mocks and laughs and scoffs at anything anyone says that they don't agree with. YOU are the kind of left wing person that some people on this thread have been going on about. You attack and attack and mock and berate anyone who says something you disagree with. YOU are the kind of person who will scream in the face of someone who dares to say they support Tory. Because no-one is right but you.

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them. Some people deserve to be on disability and are genuine of course, but some do not deserve to claim disability, and never have deserved it. THESE are the ones to blame for genuine people having their benefits cut. I am sure it will not sit well with you to admit that though.

As I said, I can't be arsed to debate with someone like you. Like Livia said, people like you are the reason people won't admit to voting Tory.

Arse - I don't believe JC would make the slightest difference to the vulnerable people you are talking about as I do not believe he could run a government properly. I think he's far more interested in social/ redistribution/ class stuff anyway. He might spend lots of money for a while - but then we'll run out again.

I'm a Remainers and I would have considered him to be a hypocrite if he'd tried to convince me, hence Alan Johnson

Corbyn is a hypocrite. If he couldn't whole heartedly support Remain he should have stepped down as leader

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them

Fucking prove it!

The governments own figures show that for the horse crap it is. Why the hell should I be polite when you can't even be bothered to read before spouting the kind of horse hit that makes it so easy for the government to dehumanise us.

But you go ahead and tell the disabled mother who watched her disabled friend die due to cuts to pipe down.

I'm sure we will all get a lot quieter soon.

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them.

But are the changes being implemented to root out the tiny percentage of fraudsters worth the loss of even one life?

Sittinonthefloor he sure as hell couldnt do any worse than what will happen if the Tory's get in again.

Just anyone fucking dare call that 'over dramatic' after you've looked at the figures.

I'm genuinely interested... where can I find these figures.

Arse What is it that you want from this thread? And if you are that upset, perhaps give yourself a break for a while. Because the only person losing their rag right now is you

How much you represent the ignorant, smug, complacent and backward in Britain cuppaoftea Or are you Katie Hopkins in disguise?

The Brexit vote is our undoing.

But I bet you are Ok, fuck the rest of us.

And Arse, who would do a better job in the future is a matter of opinion and guess for ALL of us, including you. None of us is right or wrong now because we haven't seen the future yet. Luckily for us we live in a democracy ( sort of) where most of respect that people can have differing political views to us and not assume that they are therefore wrong, selfish and (I'm interpreting from your tone) basically evil.

@Ravenblack, your argument that there were more people abusing disability benefit than disability claimants who now who have suffered extremely cruel cuts doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As I said above, Government's own figures said fraud for the disability benefit DLA in 2013, the year it was replaced by PIP was a meagre 0.5%. Secondly, as said on here the govt are paying the private companies now doing the disability benefit, PIP, and out of work sickness benefit, esa, assessments more than any savings. The blame does not lie with disability and sickness claimants in previous years.

idiots from the Tory party that thought they were really clever signing up to the Labour party to vote for Corbyn

Has anyone ever been shown to have done this? Or is it just more Labour fake news?

Synster - raven hasn't said anything disablist! And I'd guess most of the country would agree with her!

In case you were interested coconuttella this is a good start.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/mortality-statistics-esa-ib-and-sda-claimants

I won't bother anymore. I'll just be a good quiet disabled person.

Sittinonthefloor < Completely agree. The fact is we are all in this together but rather than have rational debate and for us all to try and figure out the fact from the fiction together there is always abuse hurled in every direction. It's depressing.

Also, many of those complaining about Brexit would do well to recall some of their vitriolic attacks on Brexit supporters and assess how many opinions they changed with their attacks. It's all very well to sit their spouting abuse and being angry but if you care so much then you'd do well to try and change peoples opinions with understanding rather than scorn.

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them

I can't quite believe what I'm reading in these last few posts.

Is this ignorant shite alright on mumsnet these days?