I think the tories will lose

[ethanrayne]

I actually thought they would win, and there was nothing anyone could do. Now I think they will lose.

ALL major terror groups end up negotiating - to believe otherwise is to indulge in the naivete you accuse others of.
I honestly can't see ISIS ever negotiating. It's not like the IRA or their like where some middle ground might be possible. ISIS just want the end of the Western way of life and the sort of ideas and beliefs attached to it. They throw men off the top of tall buildings to kill them just for being gay - that's not the sort of thinking that you can negotiate with.

However I don't think he will run the economy well enough to pay for them

Tory Debt has soared. No growth. No plan for growth.

Sittinonthefloor I'm not sure negotiating will help either but the reality is it will happen and may already have started. Why deny it? Why sneer at people for discussing the reality? I thought we wanted honest politicians. Would you rather Corbyn just churned out the same old lies as the others?

High infllation was not just a UK issue in the 70s.

Yes - this Government has created jobs. Poorly paid, zero hours, part time jobs.

Growth is low. House prices are too high. Rents are high.

it will happen and may already have started.

Indeed. Margaret Thatcher repeatedly insisted that she would not negotiate 'with terrorists'. And that turned out to be a lie. Was she afraid that her core supporters would abandon her if she told the truth at the time? JC is being honest about his intentions at the very least.

The problem with ISIS is they are also killing many Muslims too, they have an ideology based on what they think islam is and how people should follow it and they want people to live by, they don't care if they kill Muslims, British,French etc. They will do it all those people who won't follow their version. I am sorry but you cannot sit down and negotiate with that..how would that go? ISIS saying we want your people to follow our ideology and that is it, they wouldn't compromise on it so where is the negotiation in that. They are killing Muslim imans who follow Islam but because it is not how ISIS want it followed they are deemed an enemy.

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thought provoking.

One of the most intelligent threads about the election, in the main.

It's not naive to think that negotiation with Isis would be futile! There is no middle ground to negotiate on, they don't want peace!

Why no costed plans from the Tories?

Nothing on Brexit.
Nothing on soaring debt.
Nothing on growth.
Nothing on housing.

Nothing at all.

Where is May?

If Labour don't do well in this election following Mays absolutely abysmal campaign, then they really are in trouble.

An attempt at a peaceful solution can never be futile. What's the alternative?

Where is May?

Finished yesterday. 1 June today

yes, it's much more comfortable for me to not want intervention against ISIS for the risk of civilian casualties but I support intervention as I also believe attempts to negotiate with ISIS are 0% likely to be successful.

Sittinonthefloor I don't want to derail the thread discussing ISIS, the point is Corbyn was being honest. Negotiations will happen, this is the absolute truth. Politicians patronise the public by saying they will never negotiate because this is what people want to believe but it is not true.

Do you want honesty or not?

One thing that baffles me about Isis supporters - a lot of them are sucked in by the argument that the west kills Muslims. But Isis kill more Muslims than anyone. So why does that appear persuasive Or is it just that they are the wrong sort of Muslims?

I think the general public would have thought the same about the IRA in the 70s and 80s. I'm sure I regularly heard those very same words.

Interesting thread.

Sionella said people have forgotten what a real Labour government is like and that's so true. The Cool Britannia government was Red Tory, Tory-lite, remember? Not socialist at all.

Jeremy Corbyn is a 1970s person and would create a 1970s Labour government.

Anyone old enough to remember "last person to leave Britain, switch the lights off" shouldn't really be going for that!

(OK, I know a few who are, but they are from rich families and it's largely been a life-long pose).

I am disappointed in TM's campaign and may not vote at all, the headbangers might need to step in - but a vote for a Jeremy Corbyn government would be lunacy on a par with Trump-voting.

Sadly, the "unrelatable woman" effect is strongly at work here, as it was with Hillary.

Mouse - you THINK negotiation with Isis will happen. It isn't an 'absolute truth'. There aren't really any parallels to be drawn from history either because it's a new kind of group. It's made of disparate cells, not a military structure and their aim is our destruction.

Anyone suggesting that we should expect a return to the 1970s should google the global economy at the time rather than relying on selective memory.

On tax, there's plenty of solid research that says taxes on income become self-defeating at about 50%. So taxation needs to be a balance between being on income and spending, with better calculated gradation. What has been fully acknowledged that we don't do, is make big international companies pay tax on their earnings in this country. I've searched for information on how much various companies would pay if that were so, but it doesn't seem to be collated anywhere. It's a research topic I don't have time for if I'm to carry on supporting the organisations I do, and they come first, but it's vital to know this if we are to make a judgement on what this country's income could be.

On this, we'd be far better off in the EU, with all that clout on our side and the same policies applied across all 28 countries. If this were the case, those companies would know there's no running away if they want to trade in Europe, and we'd get our fair share. This is one of their high priority projects. Otherwise all these companies will simply headquarter themselves in Jean-Claude Junker's lowest-tax Luxembourg.

The young vote has no knowledge of a true labour government and the 30-40s group remember the Blair years that were capitalist with a nod to metropolitan socialist causes.
Both groups will be shocked by what they might vote in.
Its well and good promising free tuition fees and free money for all but what a pull factor especially with open borders, that will be leaking investment in the opposite direction of travel.
And re Isis negotiations, there soon won't be a need, demographics will ensure that muslims are in the majority and law and policy will be slanted accordingly.

I think that I'm going to report your post pearly for the 'Muslims will be the majority' comment. It comes across as very inflammatory.

The tax thing is absolutely true. I've given an example before from a few years ago where I flogged myself raw one year and earned an exceptional performance bonus of £10k. I mean, I worked about 14-18 hours a day; I worked most weekends; I cancelled 2 holidays; I did several stints of 48 hours without going home. At 40% tax that felt worth it. The following year I fell into the 62% tax band. It was not worth it, so I didn't do it. Instead of £4,000 tax, the treasury got nil. If you decentivise people, they won't do it. Or they'll go elsewhere and do it.

Don't be daft, Vango.

If I could work out which one you are user I'd ask what you mean.

really christina? stating fact is inflammatory on mumsnet now? go check it out. and while you are at it check out the £ tanking.