Trump (Part 7)

[claig]

Even more Trump.

There may be 4 years of this.
Try to keep it lighthearted and not snide, please.
It's Christmas.

Yes, exactly this, Darth

That was to darth's previous post, but the last one is right enough

'I'm not the one lacking in critical thinking skills'

Evidence?

'Repeatedly its been said to you that lots of different journalists said Trump could win'

I was talking about predictions that Trump would win, not could win.

The 172's candidate, Owen Smith, could have won the 2.30 at Kempton Races if he trotted fast enough and he could have won the greyhound race at Dagenham Dogs if he came out of the traps fast enough, but he didn't and he also lost to Corbyn, so he is history.

Thanks for both compliments.

www.thenation.com/article/this-political-theorist-predicted-the-rise-of-trumpism-his-name-was-hunter-s-thompson/

"It’s not hard to see in the demographics, the words, and the behavior of Trump supporters an ethic of total retaliation at work. These are men and women who defend their vote by saying things like: “I just wanted people to know that I’m here, that I count.” These are men and women whose scorn of “political correctness” translates into: “You can’t make me talk the way that you want me to talk, even if that way of talking is nicer and smarter and better.” These are men and women whose denials of climate change are gleeful denials of scientific expertise in a world where scientific experts have unquestioned intellectual respect and social status. These are men and women who seemed to applaud the incompetence of Trump’s campaign because competence itself is associated with membership in the elite.

Thompson would want us to see this: These are men and women who know that, by all intellectual and economic standards, they cannot win the game. So whether it be out of self-protection or an overcompensation for their own profound sense of shame, they lash out at politicians, judges, scientists, teachers, Wall Street, universities, the media, legislatures—even at elections. They are not interested in contemplating serious reforms to the system; they are either too pessimistic or too disappointed to believe that is possible. So the best they can do is adopt a position of total irreverence: to show they hate the players and the game.

Understood in those terms, the idea that Trumpism is “populist” seems misplaced. Populism is a belief in the right of ordinary people, rather than political insiders, to rule. Trumpism, by contrast, operates on the presumption that ordinary people aren’t going to get any chance to rule no matter what they do, so they might as well piss off the political insiders using the only tool left available to them: the vote"

Claig,

Your lack of critical thinking is displayed every time someone makes a critique of Trump and you come back with "well you would say that because." Tu Quoque is a flawed arugment. Any time anything is questioned you resort to "the people" and "elites" even though its been pointed out repeatedly that factually neither of these things are true. Trump is an elitist member of the establishment, and he didn't win the popular vote. You talk of draining the swamp yet Trump already looks to be assembling the largest ever crony capitalist cabinet (oooh the alliteration) and seems to have several issues regarding corruption and fraud going on himself.

You spout about climate change conspiracy, but when its pointed out that this is mainly from the fossil fuel industry, you defend the Trump industry appointee. You slander newspapers that have standards yet quote from partisan websites. You reference books and demonstrate that you either clearly haven't read them or misunderstood what happens.

You make excuses, shift the boundaries, make leaps of faith, criticise Oxbridge when you want to, yet quote it in appeals to authority.

You lack any intellectual rigour whatsoever. Claiming that you called Brexit and Trump is fine, but as another poster pointed out you have been wrong on several other things. Saying you bet on Trump and Brexit and won is like betting on the flip of a coin, its nothing but luck.

"This Political Theorist Predicted the Rise of Trumpism. His Name Was Hunter S. Thompson."

The only problem is Hunter S Thompson died in 2005 and the people's revolution was in 2016, teh year the elites scrubbed out from their calendars in a fit of pique.

'These are men and women who know that, by all intellectual and economic standards, they cannot win the game'

Right. So the rich people and intelligent people who backed Trump were all "losers" who can't win the game? Sounds like what Cameron's teams said about Brexit voters.

'they lash out at politicians, ... — even at elections'

The author is having a laugh, surely? When is the best time to lash out at politicians? After they are elected? Is this a Guardian article?

'Populism is a belief in the right of ordinary people, rather than political insiders, to rule. Trumpism, by contrast, operates on the presumption that ordinary people aren’t going to get any chance to rule no matter what they do, so they might as well piss off the political insiders using the only tool left available to them: the vote"'

Nobody is stupid enough, like the author and possibly one of the Guardian's finest, to assume that "the people are going to rule". We all know that we need an intermediary who represents us and we want the best one there is and that was Trump rather than the elite's stooges.

It is still populism because he espoused populist principles and that is why the people voted for him. If he lets the people down and sells out to the elites then the people will vote him out and pick a better non-elite representative.

You can make a prediction and it still be true even after you have died you know.

I think that's a fairly accurate depiction. It meets all of your criteria of the people and political correctness too.

And there again you with the "Guardian" and the "people" .

Trump has just tweeted this

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won't happen!
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Is this his famous "sense of humour"? He's scared of being president, isn't he?

'Your lack of critical thinking is displayed every time someone makes a critique of Trump and you come back with "well you would say that because."'

I never said that.

'Tu Quoque is a flawed arugment'

I try not to use French swear words, i do use "tu" for "you", but draw the line at Quoque because it is a reference to genitalia

'Any time anything is questioned you resort to "the people" and "elites" even though its been pointed out repeatedly that factually neither of these things are true'

I can't help it if you have got your facts wrong

'ou spout about climate change conspiracy, but when its pointed out that this is mainly from the fossil fuel industry'

Thanks for "pointing that out", now I undertand what you tried to say to me ... they did not listen, they did not know how, perhaps they'll listen now

"You slander newspapers that have standards yet quote from partisan websites"

No, I just slander the Guardian and I quote from the Daily Mail which is not partisan but remains scrupulously independent which is why it regularly hammered both Cameron and Owen Banter, the 172's candidate.

'criticise Oxbridge when you want to, yet quote it in appeals to authority'

Absolutely because I am taking the piss in both instances

'You lack any intellectual rigour whatsoever'

Not even a teeny bit of rigour? Just a fraction of yours?

'but as another poster pointed out you have been wrong on several other things'

I admit I was wrong in thinking that Owen Banter, the 172's candidate, could only eat 30 hard-boiled eggs in one sitting. I didn't realise the size of his mouth was able to accomodate twice that amount. I guess that is why they call him Owen Banter.

'Saying you bet on Trump and Brexit and won is like betting on the flip of a coin, its nothing but luck.'

Yes, I was born lucky. I get so many predictions right

's this his famous "sense of humour"? He's scared of being president, isn't he?'

No that is Trump putting them in their place. He is not scared, he loves this stuff, this is meat and drink to Trump, he can't wait to get started on sorting the elites out.

And that's what playing chess with a pigeon looks like. Good night all.

Tu quoque is Latin, it means "and you", do try at least to be a challenge.

The Daily Mail is partisan, its certainly not known for its objectivity.

"Absolutely because I am taking the piss in both instances."

Ah the its only taking the piss excuse, nope not going to wear it, its being selective about when you listen to opinion, which is only when it confirms your bias.

"Not even a teeny bit of rigour? Just a fraction of yours?"

None.

You are Milo Y and I claim my £5.

'And that's what playing chess with a pigeon looks like. Good night all.'

I agree, Kaija. I am not playing chess with Darth anymore, it is a waste of time, pigeons just mess the board up. Good night

Aww is it because you can't ???

Come on Claig, be like the Donald!

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
China has been taking out massive amounts of money & wealth from the U.S. in totally one-sided trade, but won't help with North Korea. Nice!
11:47 PM - 2 Jan 2017

Mummy, that boy doesn't want to play with me. Even though I called him a little shite.

Also, I'm sure all those investors who manufacture their products in China don't line their pockets.

China has allowed people like Trump to keep operating.

Without Chinese debt buying the US would be in a much worse position, and they have a lot of influence because of it.Trump's understanding of this appears limited though

DARTH.

Goodness me you seem to be a new poster on here!

You're quite dominating and challenging on here now I see.

Have you only just discovered the TRUMP threads.

Why now?

'The Daily Mail is partisan, its certainly not known for its objectivity.'

It's no worse than any other paper, and besides how do you know if you don't read it.

I read them all.

'You talk of draining the swamp yet Trump already looks to be assembling the largest ever crony capitalist cabinet'

Well the way I see it is that Trump is appointing people he trusts, and he trusts those who supported him all the way. What would you do if you won election? I'm pretty sure I'd go for people I trust.

Your lack of critical thinking is displayed every time someone makes a critique of Trump and you come back with "well you would say that because."

See also the "If I'm proved to be wrong in an election prediction it must be because it was fixed" response. Also the "I/Trump was only joking" one when caught out in something that is blatantly untrue/hypocritical; and, when really stuck, "I'm going to close my eyes, stick my fingers in my ears and claim that inconvenient facts are lies".

See also the you say that because you read it in the Guardian. As if (the) people couldn't think for themselves.

I particularly love "the whole media are telling lies" vs "if Trump says it it's because it's true". But, then Trump lied/joked/exaggerated/said it to win in the next sentence.

It's like a bad computer programme with no internal consistency checks.

Because the only person who can really tell when Trump is telling the truth or not at any time, it's himself. And it looks like he has some issues in that department anyway.

It's not even particularly true that Trump has chosen people that have stuck by him. He ditched a few stalwarts.

Yes, the " only joking" line is deeply depressing. Classic bully technique.

Jokes like ...............

See also the process to choose the Secretary of State:

"At the time, Trump didn’t know who Tillerson was, according to a Post report documenting the president-elect’s decision-making process. But Gates, a former C.I.A. director and secretary of defense, made a compelling case for Tillerson, whose company was also one of his clients at the consulting firm he runs with former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice"
www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/donald-trump-rex-tillerson-secretary-of-state

Not at all a long trusted supporter.

And he may be, quite rightly, rejected by the Senate, if enough GOP members stick with what's best for the US instead of bending over for Trump.
The votes should take place soon.

'Not at all a long trusted supporter. '

Trump picks people based on recommendations from people he trusts. He fires them , as he has done some of his campaign team, if he thinks they are not best suited for the roles. He is a businessman, not a "career politician", he gets the job done.