Trump (Part 5)

[claig]

Continuation of the discussion on all things Trump and the people's revolutions

It's clever though, posting a clip or article alongside a false statement, to imply that the clip provides evidence of that statement.
Are you hoping that people will believe you without bothering to check the contents of your links?
Deceitful and lazy.

"I doubt most sheltered middle class females have seen racism, sexism and homophobia"

Well, many may not have experienced it personally. That is not the same as saying they have not seen it.

What do those terms mean to you then Missswatch?

Back to trump. Just when you thought he couldn't prove himself more unfit to govern, there is more:

[[http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/opinion-left-has-white-supremacy-problem-too-n690261 This] is more on the sanders being a White Supremcist thing. It's long and nuanced, but I do hope a couple of people read it thoughtfully.

Sorry this

Well, many may not have experienced it personally. That is not the same as saying they have not seen it.

Very much this.

And white middle class women experience sexism all the time. Who do you think sexism happens to? Men?

A western middle class woman being asked to go to coffee by a creepy guy in the office is hardly sexism yet western women scream patriarchy. Meanwhile in the middle east the worst possible things are happening to women in a real rape culture, a real patriarchy

"Yep. The people who voted for Trump are all stupid, all bigots, all Deplorable. "

I see this device a lot on here. Always from Trump supporters. Similar tactic used by Brexiters on Brexit. I have never once seen anyone suggest that all Trump supporters are any of those things. It just doesn't happen.

So why would Trump supporters suggest it I wonder? Answers on a postcard please...

"A western middle class woman being asked to go to coffee by a creepy guy in the office is hardly sexism"

Of course it isn''t. Who said it was?

Other women of course. I read this kinda thing on reddit

Stunning interview with the left winger, John Pilger, on Trump. Pilger says he wasn't surprised that Trump won, only the liberals were surprised. He says they thought "how dare these people express their frustration at the ballot box". He mentions the "journalists" who are not independent and merely an extension of the same power structure. He mentions our own BBC and our own Guardian and even our own favourite Oxford PPE at the Guardian, Jonathan Freedland.

Very perceptive interview and well worth watching unless you are a Blairite.

They will never be able to put the genie back in the bottle, their spin and political correctness has been destroyed by Trump and the people are awake. Blair won't be able to save them, the whole crap has collapsed in the people's revolution.

They all hate Corbyn for the same reason that they hate Trump, because Corbyn dares to tell the truth. He is useless on lots of issues and is nowhere near as good as Trump, but he does dare to expose their lies and that is why the Bliars hate Corbyn too as do the 172.

But
A western middle class woman being asked to make coffee by random guy in the office IS sexism.

And it happens to many.

Other women of course. I read this kinda thing on reddit

Cute. And hard evidence.

Are you discounting other women's claims here? All stories posted by women on reddit about such harassment are made up?

Interesting

That's interesting Bertrand, thanks. Is that the comment that was referred to in Claig's clip? If so it is more nuanced than implied.
I have seen the term "identity politics" thrown around a lot, but pretending that inequalities don't exist will not make them go away.

For example, it is obvious that there is a disproportionate representation of certain universities and schools (Oxbridge and Eton) in politics, business, and the media. Claig has referred to it in several posts. It is not necessarily the fault of any individuals within those groups, but there is obviously something going on to cause this (it can't just be a coincidence). Some see conspiracies, whereas I think the reasons for the imbalance are more complex and subtle - caused by cultural and inadvertent systemic biases.
Apparently it is fine to point out this imbalance, but pointing out the low numbers of women and and BAME people is "identity politics".

Surely everyone can observe that the number of men, and the number of white men in particular in powerful, influential positions does not represent the population as a whole. Once we accept that, there are three logical conclusions that could be drawn:

1. It's an amazing coincidence.
2. Women and minorities are just a bit shit compared to white men.
3. There are systemic and cultural reasons why women and minorities are not better represented in politics, business and other leadership positions. I would argue that its 3. I am not saying it is the fault of individual people within politics, business etc - many of those white men may be very good at their jobs and may be doing what they can to address the problem, but we do not live in a perfect meritocracy. The situation has been improving (too slowly, perhaps) but Trump and the popularity of politicians like Farage and UKIP are a huge leap backwards, that's why many of us are so concerned by the validation of misogenistic and racist language.

Some would describe that as identity politics but who does it benefit to pretend that racism and sexism doesn't exist?

Also how is it sexism? If George Clooney asked any woman to coffee that'd be fine. Double standards from feminists at it's best

Is a member of senior management telling you that you have nice breasts in front of other employees sexism Missswatch?

Are you discounting other women's claims here? All stories posted by women on reddit about such harassment are made up?

No... I'm discounting your story about seeing those stories on reddit classified as being experiences of sexism.

Show us one and then we can judge whether it's fair or not to call it sexism.

I'm not talking about that though in particular squishy. Yes it is to answer your question though

Do it yourself lweji. Go to the twox sub or something and find one

Just checking that, in your esteemed opinion on what is and isn't sexism, I have witnessed sexism. Guess I'm not one of those "sheltered females", huh?

There is a major difference between your idiot boss saying pervy things to you and what happens in the middle east

For a start over here you can move jobs or report your boss to HR. Your boss isn't exactly beating you for wearing the wrong clothes

Some would describe that as identity politics but who does it benefit to pretend that racism and sexism doesn't exist?

Claiming that sexism and racism doesn't exist in today's society reminds me of a phenomenon we see in disease control.

When a disease is really bad (say, there's an epidemic), people do their best to control it and get rid of it. Then it starts going down and it becomes less frequent, so it stops being a priority and the effort is reduced or removed. People will ask: why is so much money and time being spent on something that is not serious, or is on the go? So, we see that disease rising again. That last bit is the most difficult and it requires a different approach to when the disease was raging.

Great strides have been done in relation to sexism and racism. Certainly at institutional level. But none has completely disappeared. Interestingly, as most cases are not so open or serious, whatever persists tends to be dismissed. The danger is that it will go up again, as those "minor" cases are then considered normal, or not worth the effort of addressing. To really remove racism and sexism, we do need to push and address what might considered "minor" or not serious enough.
That is the challenge.
And it has just become more difficult by recent election results.

Do it yourself lweji. Go to the twox sub or something and find one

I thought you were the one trying to prove a point.
I can't prove a negative (that there aren't such posts). But you can prove a positive (that there are such posts).

So, I'll just conclude that you know of no such posts and just lied.