Trump (Part 5)

[claig]

Continuation of the discussion on all things Trump and the people's revolutions

I'd also like evidence of the concern non-liberals have about FGM. Is it conservative groups that worry about it?

Damn questions. They just creep in when argumentation is weak.

I don't care how sensitive to racism you claim to be Southall

Starting a post like that does not endear the writer to me.

Starting a post like that does not endear the writer to me.

See? Entertaining.

What do you mean "they hardly discourage it", Southall? Have you ever come across a case of a liberal knowing that FGM is happening doing nothing about it?

It's not individuals, it's the current tippy-toe attitude to customs which are illegal in this country but are followed through properly because the political will is not there.

The regressive liberals tolerate illiberal principles, ideology, customs and practices of other cultures, for the sake of not rocking the multicultural boat. That was the finding of the sex exploitation trials.

correction NOT followed through properly....

Anyway, have to do some writing. I have a fight on my hands with the RAC who don't yet realise it but will soon wish they had never crossed my path.

I'm also not bothered about endearing myself to you, Southall. The fact is that you made a very offensive accusation against me which you cannot stand up. Please have the grace to withdraw it.

What "tippy toe" attitude, Southall? How is it being tippy toe to have a law specifically outlawing FGM and putting a lot of resources into making sure that people like teachers and health professionals are alert to it and facilitated in reporting concerns that a child may be at risk of this and taking safeguarding action?

So, running away and avoiding the issue of your offensive name-calling, then, Southall?

Deep you might have to try to be endearing, - you're as sweet like chocolate on the Strictly thread.

Why? I don't feel terribly placatory towards people who sling offensive epithets at me.

How is it being tippy toe to have a law specifically outlawing FGM and putting a lot of resources into making sure that people like teachers and health professionals are alert to it

It's window dressing, FGS. A girl returning from her parents homeland following a holiday and after being cut is not going to be examined. She's not going to say anything, and any pain she may display at school she will explain as period pain. There is nothing in place at the moment to actually prevent.

What do you suggest is done, more than it is?

Compulsory genital inspection for girls?
Prohibiting travel abroad for girls of at risk ethnic groups?

Meanwhile...

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/16/obama-retaliation-russia-hacking-us-election

Barack Obama promises retaliation against Russia over hacking during US election
"The CIA has judged that the Russian cyber attacks, including the hacking of emails from the Democratic National Committee, were intended to influence the election in Donald Trump’s favour, according to reports. The FBI agrees that there was Russian hacking but has not as yet concluded it was intended to favour the Republican contender."

It was probably that hacker Два.ч

Compulsory genital inspection for girls? Prohibiting travel abroad for girls of at risk ethnic groups?

Nothing can actually be done - that's the point, and the custom continues. It's window dressing, wasting of money training teachers and other professionals, etc etc.

Reading this thread I am more convinced than ever that trying to engage with posters like this is not only futile, but legitimises extreme views

you cannot possibly have a discussion in good faith with a person who maintains a magical thinking sort of logic whereby talking about racism is the cause of racism

It takes the piss out of the idea of words and meaning. They are laughing at those who try earnestly to engage with their 'views' which don't even maintain coherence or consistency even over the space of an hour of posting.

I think we'd be better off organising resistance amongst ourselves

Feminists will say it is a patriarchal practice but they wouldn't dare protest outside a Muslim community

Southall, are you aware of this government guidance and this?

Have a look in particular at the Home Office elearning training which is linked in the second document, Chapter 4 of that document and the appendices - particularly the list of risk factors and signs that FGM might take place or has taken place, which includes:

• a girl or woman has difficulty walking, sitting or standing or looks

uncomfortable;

• a girl or woman finds it hard to sit still for long periods of time, and this was not a problem previously;
• a girl or woman spends longer than normal in the bathroom or toilet due to difficulties urinating;
• a girl spends long periods of time away from a classroom during the day with bladder or menstrual problems;
• a girl or woman has frequent urinary, menstrual or stomach problems;

Multi-agency statutory guidance on female genital mutilation | 41

• a girl avoids physical exercise or requires to be excused from physical

education (PE) lessons without a GP’s letter;

• there are prolonged or repeated absences from school or college;
• increased emotional and psychological needs, for example withdrawal or depression, or significant change in behaviour;
• a girl or woman is reluctant to undergo any medical examinations;
• a girl or woman asks for help, but is not be explicit about the problem; and/or
• a girl talks about pain or discomfort between her legs.

If you think that someone who has gone through the training (which is offered in all local authorities) and read the guidance is going to be fobbed off by a girl saying she has period pains, you're mistaken.

So how is any of that being "tippy toe"? And what evidence do you have that liberals are ignoring FGM or allowing it to flourish?

Deepan All of the above you have posted is wonderful. But unless the girl herself agrees to a physical exam, or at least states what has happened to her, we cannot move forward. And girls from that culture stop PE and some games anyway, because it can break the hymen. A GP letter is not required to be excused from PE because of your faith.

If the girl unburdens herself and spills the beans, she cannot easily return home because her family will be very hostile towards her. I worked as a volunteer for Southall Black Sisters, and the young women knew that if they refused the forced marriage for example, it would be the end of the relationship with their parents in many but not all cases.

Because if you cannot decline a marriage your parents want to arrange, you can hardly tell an outsider you are either about to have FGM or you've had it - because your parents will disown you; they will not have you back in the home.

So the young women I saw had already made the hard choice to save themselves. It was devasting for them.

"Nothing can actually be done - that's the point, and the custom continues"

So what would you suggest?

Southallgirl. Pretend political correctness doesn't exist. What should be done about FGM?