Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

Bullying?

I thought we clarified that disagreement isn't bullying?

I don't feel bullied by you claig :) I find you amusing and infuriating. Often both at the same time.

But that's just as you intend it, isn't it?

And sorry Kaija, shouldn't have put words in your mouth!

"If you run a household and budgetfor 4 mouths but then 2 more mouths arrive to stay with you for several months, dont you think your expenditure would increase?"

Not if one of them has a job and the other has set up their own business.

None of us want to stop free speech, Claig. You just keep puffing away.

You are a little bit in love with Blair I think.

Kaija, you are like Alyosha, and have accused me of being aa Putin troll being paid for it. That is why I initially thought you ere probably a Blairite like Alyosha, since Blairites want to stop any pro Farage or any thought that disagrees with their politically correct position.

But I now realise you are foreign and anti Putin which is why you accuse me of being a Putin troll.

Alyosha is different, she is New Labour, I don't know where Alyosha comes from (if ity is Ukrainian or not) and she has been to Donbass, so maybe she has links with that or something and that is why she also accuses me of the thoughtcrime of not being anti Putin. But I am with Farage and don't give a stuff about Putin and am not anti him, same as Trump.

I always find Full Fact a useful source of information (as in tinfoil hats are not required):

fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/

'None of us want to stop free speech, Claig. '

Yes you do. You try to intimidate and bully and accuse me of being a "white supremacist", then a "national socialist", then a "fascist", then a "pro Putin troll" when you are not even English and for the reason that I support Farage and Trump and am not anti Putin.

Not a very successful anti-free speech strategy, name calling, though is it?

If we really wanted to shut you up claig, we'd have to fight for a law to do it.

And we're not doing that.

Free speech is your legal right to promote Putin on Mumsnet, not your right to be free of all criticism.

and yes, I lived in the Donbass for a year. Donetsk was lovely. Nice new airport (the old one was horrible)...sadly no longer.

Great article here - Trump is doing 100% what he said he would: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/28/13728086/trump-literally-and-seriously

Notably cutting regulation for the banks.

Interesting that my not being English would make a difference.

Please report me if you feel that I am bullying you.

I have not accused you of being a white supremacist, but have certainly questioned you on this given that you have been very vocal in your support for Trump who has very strong connections with white supremacist. That is not unreasonable.

I think it is fair to say that you would call yourself a nationalist. Perhaps not a socialist, although you have expressed admiration for Corbyn. How would you characterise your political position?

'I don't feel bullied by you claig '

That is because I don't bully you. I am polite to you and have been for a long time. But you persistently accuse me of being a Russian troll. Clearly yoy don't like my views and they worry you which makes me think you have an interest in Ukraine that may be personal, either through marriage or business or politics, I don't know.

I know you are a Blairite but that wouldn't be enough as Mandelson advises Putin and Blair would do business with the Devil.

But being a New Labour Blairite, on a counci or something, I think you once mentioned, political correctness is in your bones and that is why you don't like views that differ from Blairism and is why you don't like my views or Farage's etc

I support Farage exactly because of people like you, and even though I now have switched back to Theresa May, if your type of New Labour apparatchik ever gets back into power, I will straight back to UKIP to save English people's free speech.

'Not a very successful anti-free speech strategy, name calling, though is it?'

That is all Blairites and New Labour have got. They called Farage a "fascist" and "racist" and "hateful" and all the usual stuff and the Democrats did the same to Trump, but it didn't work against Trump.

"If we really wanted to shut you up claig, we'd have to fight for a law to do it.

And we're not doing that."

No, Blairites are cleverer than that. They don't use laws to take our freedoms, they use "political correctness" as a form of intimidation. If there was a law, then people would oppose it because it was obvious. The Blairite uses a subtle form of control known as "political correctness" and Big Brother thoughtcrime, but Trump has ended all that, thank God, and that will help us in England against the enemies of free speech and diversity of thought.

Odd irony of all this is all these supposed free speech advocates being pro-Putin, but these are strange times.

'Free speech is your legal right to promote Putin on Mumsnet, not your right to be free of all criticism.'

I don't mind criticism because I can out reason you or any Blairite with my hands behind my back, what I don't like is smears that I am a pro Putin troll. You are the one who worked in Donbass. What did you do there? Who did you work for?

Migrants are net contributors, and the NHS can claim back money for treating EU patients from their country of origin

Migrants in work are NOT net contributors if you factor in tax credits, pension credits, housing benefit, discounted CTax, child benefit and usage of GP, hospital investigations, maternity. Unless you are talking of those with well-paid desk jobs.

I read last week that medical treatment here for EU people amounts to £585 million, but we get back only £58 million from the EU.

HOW EUROPE MAKES IT MUCH TOUGHER FOR US

British citizens are entitled to emergency medical treatment in most of Europe, but access is much more tightly regulated than in the UK.

FRANCE: The EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) entitles British citizens to 70 to 80 per cent of healthcare costs at a state-approved provider. At small clinics or dentists full payment is required upfront, and then the patient claims it back from the French authorities – involving a lot of bureaucracy.

GERMANY: A passport and EHIC card are needed to access state medical care. British patients are covered by German state-approved insurance schemes, which claim the money back from the NHS. There is a non-refundable 10 euros a day charge for hospital stays, and about 10 euros per prescription.

SPAIN: An EHIC card is required at state-run clinics and hospitals, and is usually free. Only urgent treatment is covered.

POLAND: The EHIC card entitles treatment at hospitals covered by the Polish National Health Fund. At private clinics Britons will be charged.

ITALY: Britons get state hospital care with an EHIC card. Not all care is free – a fee will often be charged. Arrangements last for visits of a maximum three months.

DENMARK: Britons may have to pay for their care upfront and claim it back from a municipal office, providing all bills, hospital documents, EHIC card and bank details. Some hospitals provide care for free.

Like I said, despite our determination to uphold the rule of law, democratic norms and protection for the weaker in society, people like you claig and the 2nd largest newspaper in the country somehow manage to push their agenda..

But back to Trump's razor thin skin, his trembling finger hovering above the Nuclear button and his desire to give himself and his mates a massive tax cuts...how exactly will this help hard working every day Americans?

Also I bet you he doesn't really like Putin. Probably thinks he's a mug, falling for his shtick same as everyone else ;)

Why is it a "smear" to be pro-putin?

I thought you didn't think he was that bad?

'How would you characterise your political position?'

Pro freedom and free speech, against all Blairite political correctness, which is why I am pro Farage and obviously pro Trump because he has finished political correctness forever and that means our politically correct politicians will never be able to remove our freedom and Alyosha and the New Labour councillors will never be able to end our freedoms.

'Why is it a "smear" to be pro-putin?'

It is not a smear, Francois Fillon is, Le Pen is, Farage is not anti him and Trump is pro Putin.

It is only a smear for the bankers who wanted war against Putin.

But being a pro Putin troll is a smear, and that is what you accuse me of.

Claig, forgive me, but while your use of rhetorical devices is excellent, as your understanding of your audience, if your powers of reasoning are also strong you are keeping them quite well hidden on here. Engagement with an argument is very much not part of your shtick.

Nice to see a man on MN - Alyosha.

I should have remembered better than to get sidetracked!

Claig, Trump, finger, Nuclear, thin skin - you have no concerns?

And the fact he's giving himself a massive tax cut?

'But back to Trump's razor thin skin'

No why don't you tell us what you did in Donbass and who you worked for?

What is your understanding of the word "troll", Claig?