Trump

[claig]

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

Well... maybe we can see through all the spin you talk of but still not countenance DT.

'Well... maybe we can see through all the spin you talk of but still not countenance DT.'

Absolutely. Just as Labour members by a vast majority saw through teh spin of the media against Corbyn and in favour of the 172's candidate, Owen Smith, and couldn't countenance the 172. I agreed with Labour members.

I can understand that people prefer Hillary to Trump.

What I am highlighting is that the system, the media was biased against Trump just as it was biased against Corbyn and the reason for that bias is that they are servants and chums of the elites and went to the same universities, they are the same metropolitan elite circle which is why they have the same groupthink which I term "Oxbridge groupthink" because it turns out that hardly a single one of the spinners is not from Oxbridge.

This is what Jeremy's Corbyn's brother, Piers Corbyn, wrote about his brother's victory and the similarity with Trump's victory against "the establishment bubble" i.e. the bubble of chums

"This election is strangely reminiscent of my brother, Jeremy Corbyn’s, epic victories in Labour – on many different policies but nevertheless against the establishment bubble."

You're using 'Oxbridge' in a derogatory way. You wouldn't use 'black person' or 'gay' in the same way

Are you actually being serious?

It is disgraceful what is happening after a democratic election. Has Obama or Hillary said anything to call for this to stop?

'Kill the police!' Anti-Trump protesters chant death threats at cops in Indianapolis, and demonstrators are tear-gassed in Portland as tens of thousands take to the street nationwide for fourth night of violence

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3931214/Police-attacked-rocks-bottles-anti-Trump-protests.html

Bloody hell. So everyone who went to Oxbridge is a chinless out of touch r*rd. Nice. My DD had an interview to go there, changed her mind in the end, but still. I think you need to think about what you write.

I've listened and read your posts but you are both overstepping the mark and generalising like nothing else at the moment. Trump supporters are all just perfect are they? I can imagine some of (note the 'some of' I don't label everyone the same, unlike you) Trump supporters would not be behaving impeccably if the tables were turned, we've not had the chance to find out have we.

Sometimes I read some awful crap on MN and this is it.

Lol,

Try it!

The debates are open to the public, or certainly used to be. Have a latte with them afterwards, socialise and hear their views!

I'm not going to say there isn't quality there though it doesn't bring the average up much, I'm also not going to be too harsh on those whose world views are merely immature, even if the immaturity seems prevalent and superannuated. It's all in one direction though, an echo chamber of privilege espousing memes that will make you retch.

Don't believe me? Go, see for yourself and be equally appalled at the talent pool from which our leaders derive.

You'll experience some cognitive dissonance after, I wager, and be convinced that Sandra who works behind the bar at the Red Lion should be the next PM.

It passes, though if you want a kick up the bum to actually write history rather than leaving it to our benevolent leaders then I couldn't recommend it more highly. :)

No I won't be trying it spin, I can form my own views. You are one patronising poster that's for sure! I assume I'm one with an 'immature' world view' whereas of course your view is all reaching, mature and right.

Ironic that you talk of using a flamethrower on the chinless re*ds and yet in the next para, you show faux horror at violence on the streets of America. Laughable!

I've no idea where you are getting your newsfeed from but nothing comes up with a vet being kicked to death or chelsea clinton threatened with rape. (chelsea, is that right!??)

I find it interesting that you aren't on here spin looking forward and discussing Trump's policies some of which he has now discussed, but you'd rather twist the gloating thumbscrew!

I think you're more interested in building walls than bridges.

We don't know what would have happened if Trump lost, but I doubt there would have been the large protests - many organised by MoveOn and organisations like that, which have in the past been funded by Soros (I don't know if they still are).

Throughout the 8 years of Obama's rule, I don't think there were any protests of 10,000 people going on for days and being encouraged to continue for a long time by MoveOn and even senior Democrat supporters, because most of the demonstrators are young people and young Trump supporters have no similar organisations and also are generally not protesting types.

I also think that the Daily Mail would not be asking young Trump supporters to send theire photos and stories of the protests in and wouldn't helpfully tell the protestors whose pictures they are seeking what sort of signs have already been seen at protests

"Are you taking part in the anti-Trump protests?

Rallies and protests against President elect Donald Trump have broken out in several US cities. If you’re protesting, tell us why
...
Chants heard at the NYC protest included ‘black lives matter’, ‘deport Donald Trump’, ‘fuck Donald Trump’, ‘no fascist USA’, ‘Trump, you’re fired’, ‘trans rights are human rights’, ‘women’s rights are human rights’, and ‘my body my choice’.

If you’re taking part in any organised protest against Trump, you can share your images and stories with us via GuardianWitness, or by filling out the form below"

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/10/are-you-taking-part-in-the-anti-trump-protests

There were no similar violent protests and flashmobs attacking random people in Philadelphia or acroos America when Obama won two times, which is why I think it would have probably been the same if Trump had lost, but we don't know for sure because it didn't turn out that way.

"Six injured in random 'flash mob' attack launched by teens in downtown Philadelphia

Large crowd of about 50 teenage boys were in downtown Philadelphia around 6pm Saturday when random assaults began, police said
An off-duty cop saw two people being assaulted and tried to intervene
But they turned on him and punched his wife when she tried to stop them
Cop suffered orbital fracture and five others had minor injuries"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3932206/Flash-mob-attacks-Philadelphia-send-4-hospital.html

In my opinion, the media is partly responsible for creating this climate by constantly talking about Trump's "hate" when he never said a single bad thing about black people throughout, has lots of black supporters etc.

He talked about banning Muslims, but he dialled it back, and Muslim Americans are not rioting. Thr rioters are mainly young left wing groups.

'kicking a homeless vet to death because he voted Trump'

I googled that yesterday. It comes up but it is a fake story that was circulated. There is no corroboration of it. Someone circulated it and it spread on the internet, but it is false, fortunately.

It comes up but it is a fake story that was circulated

Thank you. I thought so. Scaremongering at its worst without checking out the facts.

It's very easy to sit there and say 'this wouldn't happen with Trump supporters'. We will have to agree to differ because we don't know. You doubt there would have been large protests. You don't know

The gloating on here about it is getting on my tits.

It is also strange that Hillary doesn't appear to have popped up yet and asked for calm and for the protestors to respect the wishes of the American voters who voted Trump in in a democratic election.

Meanwhile the Guardian solicits photos from protestors and helpfully tells them some of the signs already seen

‘fuck Donald Trump’, ‘no fascist USA’, ‘Trump, you’re fired’,

and Oxbridge Polly Toynbee says that Brexit and Trump are part of a "whitelash"

which just creates more division.

I don't know, but I am not gloating. I think it is very serious because people get injured and property damaged in riots. People are shouting "kill the police" and people who should know better are inflaming the situation by saying that Trump represents a "whitelash".

Irresponsible media elites, safe in their rich neighbourhoods, are stirring people up by constantly talking about Trump's "hate" when he never said a bad thing about black people or gay people.

"You doubt there would have been large protests. You don't know "

If only there had been a couple of similar elections in the last eight years where we could compare.

"cupcake?"

You do make me laugh, petal. You won't get the rise out of me however hard you try, cos you ain't worth it!

I certainly don't wish to cause you angst, that's horrible to think of, I won't sleep at night worrying about you and that possibility, that's for sure.

As you spin have managed to successfully shut down reasonable discussion, I'll leave you and claig to your gloaty donaldy lovefest. Enjoy!

claig please don't tell me you think of DT as a LGBT supporter, he couldn't even hold the flag the right way up! He just tried to court votes, that's all.

Anyway, I'll leave you and spin to it for your love in You both can just revel in your victory and lose meaningful discussion. Shame, I've enjoyed sparring with you over the last 3 threads and you have educated me on some things. Now go and cosy up to spin, she's waiting!

'claig please don't tell me you think of DT as a LGBT supporter, he couldn't even hold the flag the right way up! He just tried to court votes, that's all.'

He hasn't said anything against LGBT people. He has supporters who are LGBT people. He is not against them.

Roussette, I am sorry to see you go. I hope you come back when things have calmed down because you have made good points.

" If only there had been a couple of similar elections in the last eight years where we could compare."

Trump after the 2012 election:

Fair point!

Whilst Andrew Marr (Cambridge) BBC, was fanning the flames with his Marine Le Pen exclusive on Remembrance Sunday, Robert Peston (Oxford) ITV, rolled out the Chairman of RBS to remind the country that if youre all naughty boys and girls, and persist in hard Brexit, the banks are going to leave the UK. Thats the very same RBS we bailed out with 45billion, who since that time have laid off 90,000 jobs.

Its not a good weekend to argue the integrity of the Oxbridge system. Indeed, the very opening post on this thread linking the Huff Post article, was given such credence, and used as such an authoratitive source, it required debate in the first place. The author, Tobias Stone (Oxford). The point being. Oxbridge is enough.

Well the issue now is, no its not. You now have to be right as well.

I have only skimmed the last couple of pages of the thread but it's a shame if discussion has turned sour. I was really enjoying it. I came on to suggest that in response to Claig's 'They still don't get it' regarding the Economist article, I think I may know the reason why they still don't get it.

What we have witnessed over the past few years is a slide into authoritarianism in the form of communistic thinking, which, much as we all would love to live like that, simply doesn't work because it's an authoritarian system (like all systems are, but some are more authoritarian than others and this one is based on a lie). However, we didn't notice it because it didn't look like the old-style communism that we've seen before. People know that while the idea of 'pure equality' is wonderful, it's not the reality and they don't want to live under this type of authoritarianism. The reason why current commentators are wrongly attributing the win to the disenfranchised poor is because they have missed the creep of communism, and they think that if only they had given these people more money, we would have seen a different election result. In actual fact, people also got spooked by the creeping authoritarianism of communistic thinking which prevailed during this time - the creeping equalisation of everything when quite clearly all things aren't equal, they got spooked by the erosion of free speech and personal liberties, the instantiation or mooting of incomprehensible laws (I'm thinking of Red Ed's proposed blasphemy law) as well as other pertinent things. Commentators are destined to keep on missing the point if they attribute this result only to financial issues.

Ill agree with that fourmummy. Im sorry Bulgaria hasnt had more coverage this weekend. Can I also just go on record as saying, I like Theresa May. (Oxford) Daughter of a vicar, she knows first and foremost the responsibility of power. She, IMO, is doing all she can to ensure, she gets it right. Just wish a few more would

Yes, fourmummy, they seem to see everything in a Marxist economic theory type way and miss the fact that liberty of thought and expression is the authoritarianism that people are rebelling against, because spin and propaganda and political correctness are ways to shut down free speech and both England, and particularly America with the First Amendment, have a historic tradition of freedom and free speech.

Trump's 1 hour converstaion with Farage was about

"freedom and winning"

Freedom is even more important than economics. We go through bad economic cycles and then things get better, as they have done in the past, but if we lose freedom, then the authoritarian elites have really won and if we lose free speech we can't even object to what they have done.