Trump

[claig]

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

'...I mean it looks like a Russian oligarch's bathroom wall'

Is the photo really taken in Trump Tower or is that actualy in the Kremlin and is Putin just behind the door?

It just gets crazier and crazier.

Trump2016.

You should see the Russian palaces. Nasty feeling old Trumper is going to fall in love with the buildings when he visits.

Not to my taste I have to say....

Think you might enjoy this Claig...

To clarify what I said upthread (writing on the hop), although the euphoria feels the same as in '97, i feel pretty optimistic that we won't go the same way. In other words, it's a genuine change. There are plenty of signs that he's not cut from the same cloth and offers a complete break with what came before. I'm always a little reserved just in case it all goes wrong after the terrible Bliar experience, the impact of which really can't be underestimated, but there are plenty of reasons to be hopeful. Epoch- changing indeed!

Thanks, SpinFlight. Watching it now.

'I'm always a little reserved just in case it all goes wrong after the terrible Bliar experience'

The difference is Blair is and was a nobody, a servant, a PPE from Oxbridge. Trump is a billionaire, nobody's puppet, totally not politically correct, frightened of no one, has the courage to say whatever he likes, doesn't need to suck up to any billionaire, not a "career politician".

Now the media changes its tune after abusing him for over a year.

"Trump the modern Andrew Jackson. Doesn't owe anybody anything"

In nobody's pocket, ready to clean up the corrupt system and sack the servants who lectured the public and tried to steal their freedoms.

And it is reported that the conversation between Trump and Farage, in the historic meeting of the first European politician, above all of the great and the bad, with Trump was about

"freedom and winning"

Farage was almost certainly out of his depth and in way above his head, but we owe him a debt of grattude for flying the UK flag right up there at the top and sticking two fingers up to the crooked elites who tried to take our freedoms from us, our sovereignty from us and our free speech from us.

If Farage doesn't deserve a knighthood or two after this, then the system really is corrupt.

"There are plenty of signs that he's not cut from the same cloth"

He's certainly been consistent...

They are effectively saying that Trump has started a new party, which at this point I don't really agree on. Could happen and I'm sure claig will berate me about how this is a movement but there are procedural and other niceties which preclude it. Course it does depend on the Republicans themselves, particularly in the House, and whether they are willing to cooperate.

It's pretty clear that Trump sees the world in Liberalism terms, not the personal liberalism supposedly espoused by crybabies and fascists but the international relations theory, possibly even mercantilist. Which is interesting. He sees trade deals as the same as his business deals and specifically that one side wins and the other loses. If he is mercantilist then we haven't see the likes of such in the West since the 18th century though some rather persuasively argue that modern day China pursues this philosophy.

What he is actually seeing as America losing is the tail end of historical American largesse where they utilized Liberalism in the opposite way, to sustain and help allies. The costs of NATO were almost entirely borne by the US, the only condition being that they spend a minimum amount - which they don't. Many trade deals too we deliberately one sided, the arsenal of democracy used in an economic rather than military way.

Trouble is it's Congress who controls such things. Same on immigration.

Article in the very influential (among elites) Economist, after Trump's defeat of the elites and of their entire worldview.

"The Trump era

His victory threatens old certainties about America and its role in the world. What will take their place?
...
Feeling themselves victims of an unfair economic system, ordinary Americans blame the elites in Washington for being too spineless and too stupid to stand up to foreigners and big business; or, worse, they believe that the elites themselves are part of the conspiracy. They repudiate the media—including this newspaper—for being patronising, partisan and as out of touch and elitist as the politicians. Many working-class white voters feel threatened by economic and demographic decline. Some of them think racial minorities are bought off by the Democratic machine. Rural Americans detest the socially liberal values that urban compatriots foist upon them by supposedly manipulating the machinery in Washington (see article). Republicans have behaved as if working with Democrats is treachery.
...
For some of them, his flaws are insignificant next to the One Big Truth: that America needs fixing. For others the willingness to break taboos was proof that he is an outsider. As commentators have put it, his voters took Mr Trump seriously but not literally, even as his critics took him literally but not seriously. The hapless Hillary Clinton might have won the popular vote, but she stood for everything angry voters despise.
...
The election of Mr Trump is a rebuff to all liberals, including this newspaper. The open markets and classically liberal democracy that we defend, and which had seemed to be affirmed in 1989, have been rejected by the electorate first in Britain and now in America. France, Italy and other European countries may well follow. It is clear that popular support for the Western order depended more on rapid growth and the galvanising effect of the Soviet threat than on intellectual conviction. Recently Western democracies have done too little to spread the benefits of prosperity. Politicians and pundits took the acquiescence of the disillusioned for granted. As Mr Trump prepares to enter the White House, the long, hard job of winning the argument for liberal internationalism begins anew."

www.economist.com/node/21709951

They hint at the fact that the people know the system is rigged against them, as Trump said, and that there is a conspiracy of the media and elites against them.

They use the same old line that the media spinners used all along

"his voters took Mr Trump seriously but not literally, even as his critics took him literally but not seriously"

Trump's voters never took him literally and in reality nor did the lying media. The media pretended to because they wanted to make the people think that Trump was crackers, but that was part of their rigged spin that the people saw through and ignored all along. The people knew the media was rigged against Trump and the more literally the media took Trump, the more the people knew they were biased.

'Recently Western democracies have done too little to spread the benefits of prosperity. Politicians and pundits took the acquiescence of the disillusioned for granted.'

They still don't get it though. They pretend that it is only the left behind economically who voted for Trump, when in reality the majority of people earning over $50,000 voted for Trump.

The real reason everyone voted Trump is because they all know the system is rigged, the elites are not on their side, the media is full of spin and political correctness and the elites are taking the people for fools because they think the people are "deplorable".

Protestors were holding up a 'rape Melania' sign

Their true colours are showing

The real reason Trump fans in their tens of thousands booed the media, shouted "do your job" to the spinners and liars, called CNN the Clinton News Network and shouted "lock her up" is not because they are poor and left behnd economically, but because they know the system is rotten and rigged against them and that the elites are laughing at and lying to them, spinning them and preaching political correctness to them, and in 2016, they finally had enough.

Missswatch , it is disgusting isn't it?

They pretend they are politically correct and yet their comedians call Ann Coulter a *unt, they call Katie Hopkins a bitch, they call Sarah Palin stupid and mock anything she says, they oppose any woman or any minority who dares to be right wing.

On MSNBC, Chuck Todd interviewed a black Democrat Senator and said "do you think that Obama and Hillary should ask the protestors to calm down and stop their protests?" and as could be predicted he said something like protest is part of the American tradition and after the "hateful" things Trump said protest is understandable and I say "God bless the protestors" but I ask them not to do violence etc

They won't condemn the insults and they won't ask for unity because it is the liberals who are the true dividers because they are merely the servants of the elites and the elites were all defeated by Trump.

The Econmoist is the paper of the financial elite, the people who fool and trick and rip off the people with rigged markets, pay for play charidees, rigged LIBOR rates and all the rest

They say

"The election of Mr Trump is a rebuff to all liberals, including this newspaper."

They say that the Economist is liberal and that Trump has just defeated their elites and their entire worldview, and that is why their liberal puppet politcians, servants of those same liberal financial elites, will not call for unity and will continue to call "hate" while they protest and destroy and burn flags in an attempt to thwart Trump and the American people.

But can you even begin to imagine what the backlash would be like if Trump hadn't won?

'But can you even begin to imagine what the backlash would be like if Trump hadn't won?'

Absolutely nothing at all because they are the silent majority, the law abiding people, the people who have been ripped off, lied to and spun by a media that is in bed with the elites and spin everybody on the BBC or CNN because they all know each other and went to the same universities and are mates with the bankers, the political class and the great and the good.

It is just like in Brexit. Assuming all the elites, all the Oxbridge teams, do overturn Brexit and we have to stay in the EU, there will be absolutely no violence from the silent majority, the deecnt masses, because we will just accept that they have spun us and tricked us and ripped us off yet again. All we can do is vote, just like the American people voted for Trump. All we can do is pray that someone, somewhere will beat these crooked elites and their spin machines and politically correct media liars.

Trump has done it, he won, he beat them all. We won and the elites don't like it.

I doubt that very much claig TBH. I had been thinking up to the result, what the hell will happen if he loses. I think it would have been far far worse but we'll never know will we?

I also think it is very wrong of you to say that all Republican DT voters are 'decent masses' and 'law abiding people' which implies Democrats are not. They're just elites and rabble rousers. Totally wrong.

I think nearly all American people are decent people and law abiding, including Democrats. But I think that billionire elites pay for some protestors to cause trouble, just as Project Veritas exposed how some Democrat supporting groups paid for protestors to disrupt Trump's rallies

As Trump tweeted

"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"

Trump beat the system. Most people are law abiding and respect democracy, but some people don't and I think they are the tools of the elites.

I agree Roussette. Totally hypocritical.

Also a bit much, considering the vast swathes of racial abuse occurring right now across the USA. As well as the announcement by the KKK of a victory parade. And the fact all his supporters are overlooking his fraud, sexual assaults and calls to assassinate Clinton (to name but a few character 'flaws').

And stop Oxbridge bashing. It smacks of sour grapes.

The media is rigged because they are just servants and they created the spin and atmosphere that the elites thought would enable them to stop Trump.

It is deliberate rigging. If you watch our news programmes and sit down and say "are they spinning me?" before they start the broadcast you can easily see exactly how they do it. If you just sit and watch without any critical analysis, you end up believing what they chose to show you and you miss how they did it.

'And stop Oxbridge bashing.'

I am not Oxbridge bashing, I am highlighting that they are nearly all from Oxbridge on all channels and in all newspapers -Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee, Jonathan Freedland etc etc

And many aren't claig. You are doing too much of the sweeping generalisations.

Rubbish.

You're using 'Oxbridge' in a derogatory way. You wouldn't use 'black person' or 'gay' in the same way (the recent revolting DM headline of the 'openly gay' judge springs to mind: a offensive statement passive-aggressively masquerading as description). If you have a problem with them, fine, but don't blame it on their university. You just sound bitter.

It is deliberate rigging. If you watch our news programmes and sit down and say "are they spinning me?" before they start the broadcast you can easily see exactly how they do it. If you just sit and watch without any critical analysis, you end up believing what they chose to show you and you miss how they did it

You are treating a lot of the general public as thick and stupid. Don't you think we can analyse as well as you?!

'You're using 'Oxbridge' in a derogatory way.'

Absolutely because I a using it about our elite whom I view derogatively because I think they spin us and let the people down, just as the American people thought about their elites.

I don't mock Oxbridge historians or physicists because they are some of the smartest people around, I mock Oxbridge politicians and journalists (but not all of them) because having watched them for years now, I can see that they are spinners and servants of the elites.

I don't blame it on their universities, I blame it on the elites who hire them to spin, but it just happens that nearly any spinner you can name on nearly every paper, left wing or right wing, is from Oxbridge.

'You are treating a lot of the general public as thick and stupid. Don't you think we can analyse as well as you?!'

No, the reason Trump won is because the people saw through it, they understood in pols by 10 to 1 that the media wanted Hillary to win. The propaganda was so blatant that everybody saw it.

But recently I watched BBC Newsnight with the knowledge that I have picked up from watching teh entire Trump campaign and I was amazed to see that every single item from the beginning to the end was spin. I never realised it before, I didn't know it was that bad. But now most of the US population can see it blatantly, just as I can which is why Trump rightly said

"they don't believe you any more. They don't believe the media"

and that is one of the main reasons that Trump won and even why Brexit won, because everybody can now see that we are all being spun by a set of chums who all went to the same universities.

I didn't realise it 10 years ago, but it is as plain as day now for nearly everyone.