Trump

[claig]

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

'I now have a vivid mental image of Claig's voice intoning from a telescreen.'

The problem with Brexit, though is that: Cameron resigned because of his promise to trigger A50 on the 24th of June if the vote went that way (was he pushed or did he jump?), handed the ball to TM (who is one step removed from the issue and can thus mess around for a bit or, more specifically until March, when the issue goes to qualified majority vote)...has globalisation (aka 'communism'- because that's what we are actually dealing with) taken too much of a hold? Will we ever reverse it (in our lifetime)?

"One of the first things Trump said was 'Stay out of Syria' (paraphrased) and that alone is enough to show that he is heading in the right direction."

Absolutely agree with all your post fourmummy, and this in particular.

Last week we had this in the US. https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/22/us-house-seeks-syria-war-escalation/

They are indeed moving and acting quickly to manipulate an increasingly dangerous situation.

Cameron was totally discredited and humiliated. The Etablishment had to let him go because they couldn't lecture the people with a straight face any more using him.

The battle to deliver the people's will is not over. I hope Theresa may can deliver for the people, but there will be many forces trying to stop her, just as they will try to stop Trump.

We will have to wait and see if a better world will come or if the elites will beat us again.

I think now that Trumo has won, the elites are defeated. With Trump on the people's side, on Britain's side and on Farage's side, there is little that the elites can do to push forward with their agenda.

Oh I see well the people of Sunderland must be enjoying their victory then. Someone needs to tell them they are living the dream. No one said we should all earn the same money. I am saying that they have been conned. Their lives remain the same. So what was the point of Brexit etc. A one off experience of feeling that they had won and got one over on the elites. Talk about selling them short. They may as well have voted for the winner of the x factor.

Been busy so not really had a chance to contribute. But have followed the thread. It's been a really interesting discussion. Many thanks to claig for starting and her informative and well written posts, hope to see more!

"has globalisation (aka 'communism'- because that's what we are actually dealing with) taken too much of a hold? Will we ever reverse it (in our lifetime)?"

Yes I think so fourmummy. As Claig has mentioned, a couple of times , the impact of Politicians and MSM to affect the peoples thoughts and decision making has been utterly blown out of the water. This persistant wheeling out of 'experts' initially to enforce a view, for it only to crumble within weeks, has utterly undermined the reliance on so called 'expert' opinion.

Weve joked for decades about how we cant even get the weather right a week in advance, yet here we are, the great and the good, throwing contradiction after contradiction at the people whilst refusing to stick their (very important) heads out of the window to check if its raining.

When you then find yourself with an informed readership, or a readership who are capable of checking whats being spouted at them, the power to manipulate becomes impotent. Thats where we are.

Will we see a turn around in our lifetime? Absolutely, we will maintain a free internet for the simple reason that, as happened in Egypt, far greater brains will ensure those freedoms for the common man against the censoring elite. You cant put this genie back in the bottle and its causing chaos across the free thinking world.

'I am saying that they have been conned. '

No. They are too smart to be conned by Boris Johnson and Farage. The entire force and weight of the Establishment and the BBC were all on the side of Cameron and the elites. Farage and Johnson had nothing against that lot, apart from the truth.

'Their lives remain the same. So what was the point of Brexit etc.'

No, things have changed. They won teh right to be free from unelected, unaccountable foreign bureaucrats in Brussels making laws, regulations and dictats that impact their lives. The won the right to remove power from the elites and their servants and return it to the people of Sunderland and the rest of the UK, so that our political class of cronies would now be accountable to we the people and not to some wined and dined Brussels unelected bigwigs who schmooze with bankers. They won teh right to control their own borders and make and decide their own laws in a free, independent country beholde to no one apart from the British people. They fought for democracy and they defeated the elites and the elites and their Sirs and servants don't like it.

Here was what one of their Sirs is saying today, Sir John Major

"I find that very difficult to accept. The tyranny of the majority has never applied in a democracy and it should not apply in this particular democracy."

The people of Sunderland disagreed and they won and change is now sure to come.

Thanks, sportinguista

More on Russia, fake news and the election here. They've been busy.

The researchers used Internet analytics tools to trace the origins of particular tweets and mapped the connections among social-media accounts that consistently delivered synchronized messages. Identifying website codes sometimes revealed common ownership. In other cases, exact phrases or sentences were echoed by sites and social-media accounts in rapid succession, signaling membership in connected networks controlled by a single entity.

PropOrNot’s monitoring report, which was provided to The Washington Post in advance of its public release, identifies more than 200 websites as routine peddlers of Russian propaganda during the election season, with combined audiences of at least 15 million Americans. On Facebook, PropOrNot estimates that stories planted or promoted by the disinformation campaign were viewed more than 213 million times.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098festory.html?postshare=9291480039100538&tid=sss_tw

It's now up to every parent to instill in their children and teenagers a love of inquiry, to think thru issues, to not be afraid to go against consensus about anything (whatever is of current rabid interest in junior school age kids and beyond), not necessarily big stuff.

They should be proud to have a different opinion and not be scared of the bullies in schools and the workplace. Be aware that if your 'friends' now dislike you because you disagree on something and they cast you adrift, then let it happen however difficult it is.

So many young people have taken their own lives because of bullying, and make no mistake - that school bully really does want you dead regardless of what she says afterwards. Why do their bidding, why do what they want you to do?

If you cannot learn from your parents (too many do seem to screech and talk over each other) then learn from examples you see on TV or hear on the radio. Civilised people make their point, then you allow someone else to make theirs. If they do not, then they're interested only in their own voices and opinions.

Here is a black American off-duty cop talking about the atrocious anti-Trump protestors he encountered at a Trump rally. Most, he says, were black people. They were verbally violent, saying Fuck Trump in front of children (with their parents). He was shocked that the protestors tried to stop people entering the rally, harangued people and were so offensive that it gobsmacked this experienced policeman. Funny how their actions are never reported or seen on TV, he says.

Southall if you want us to list examples of atrocious behaviour from Trump supporters, and indeed Trump himself, we could be here a very very long time.

placemarking

Claig Currently I think the most insidious manipulators of people's perceptions and therefore attitudes are the celebs. From Hollywood right down to well-known faces on TV, as well as what passes for comedy these days as well - that especially. What is so funny about the Queen's sex life or toilet habits for example, and yet the audience laughs hysterically.

Did you notice that Obama gave de Niro and some other slebs medals the other day.

In the 1980s it was Ben Elton who played the alternative Leftie very well indeed and may well have 'persuaded' a generation or two towards that ideology. In RL he was anything but inclusive, and well known for it at the Beeb.

Southall, you read that link about Russian interference in the election and you still think celebrities are the big problem here?

That list is just tragic Claig. Utterly meaningless to the people of Sunderland. Free from the laws and regulations of the EU, please don't tell me you believe that, are we back to straight bananas after all this. Giving power back to the people of Sunderland, in what way. They have no bloody power. Nothing has changed. They have the right to control their own borders. No they don't. And even if they did. It won't change the fact that the only jobs left in Consett are the ones in Poundland. Power is only meaningful if it affects the way you live your life. Otherwise it is just words . I could say I took control back when I voted for Blair ( just for you ) it wouldnt mean anything. It's just words.

Yes, Southall, a lot of these celebs owe their position to playing ball, and if they don't, they can be dropped like a hot poker. That is why the public now knows the game and celeb support has no impact as it didn't in the US election. Hillary had all the celebs and Trump was at a rally by himself, saying that he didn't need any celebs. Kanye hospitalized after going on a rant that supported Trump.

Sirs and luvvies know they get access and rewards if they do as they are told, that is why we always see the same faces rolled out whenever the Establishment needs them to step up.

I disliked seeing De Niro rewarded by Obama after De Niro did his Establishment duty by releasing a video rant about wanting to punch Trump in the face, but I suspect that is why he was rewarded by the Establishment.

I liked Ben Elton even though I disagreed with him because he was very funny at that time having a go at "Thatch", but I still voted for "Thatch" even though I laughed at Ben Elton's jokes. It didn't have any effect.

'Free from the laws and regulations of the EU, please don't tell me you believe that, are we back to straight bananas after all this. '

Absolutely I believe it was important just as Trump freeing America from the globalists with "Americanism not globalism" is vitally important and is why the elites are so frightened of Trump.

The EU imposed deficit limits, their banking and pension and VAT and all other regulations thataffet us, their Ukraine warmongering and immigration policies, their austerity and ECB austerity policies, their carbon schemes and energy policies, their refusal to allow us to support and subsidise or nationalise our industries etc etc affect all our lives, and that is only the start of what the centalised unaccountable banker controlled puppets have planned for us in the future.

'Nothing has changed. They have the right to control their own borders. No they don't. And even if they did. It won't change the fact that the only jobs left in Consett are the ones in Poundland. Power is only meaningful if it affects the way you live your life.'

Everything has changed. We are on the way back to controlling our own destiny. It is about the future of the country for future generations, not just for jobs in Poundland today. It is the beginning of change and setting our own industrial and regeneration policies that allow us to set our own rules, support and nationalise whatever industries we want and determine our own trade deals and tariffs.

It is about gaining greater control of our puppets as we have cut their Brussels strings and we therefore have more control over them.

' I could say I took control back when I voted for Blair '

No because Blair was as subject to the unaccountable elites in Brussels as all the rest of the puppets.

Kaija, What are you trying to show here? Youre merely repeating what weve all been saying as to what is portrayed in MSM.

It is however a classic example of 'no evidence' based liberal leftie desperation. If the intelligence services had evidence of Russia hacking the election, dont you think they would have used it by now? (Or is Obama keeping it quiet so he can pull this rabbit out of the hat at some other 'important' moment?) We are bombarded by a biased, propoganda driven MSM who are desperately desperately peddling 'no evidence' stories.

The fact some random bloke in the Sverdlosk Oblast (apols if misspelt) has forwarded some random internet story that Hillary 'may be ill' is hardly earthshattering, as is the assumption that Hillary was unable to counter this onslaught of Russian 'interference' regards reports about her health.

Well if your position is a point blank refusal to believe anything in the msm unless it's Russia Today, you have a problem. Not sure where you go from there.

Absolutely, we will maintain a free internet [...] You cant put this genie back in the bottle and its causing chaos across the free thinking world

Chris, you are right in underscoring the importance of the internet in all of this. It has been instrumental in changing our relationship with authority, de-expertising the 'experts' and educating people. By all accounts, these changes should be permanent but I continue to have an uneasy feeling precisely because of this generalised panic and hysteria that have ensued.

Here is Trump, trying to reverse the fortunes of America and to bring about a semblance of honest transaction within govt, and we have the RL here banging on about his gross behaviour with some women.

Do any of you have a sense of urgency about USA, about the skulduggery behind the scenes that the Clintons were so fond of, and the enrichment of some American politicians in return for 'favours'. However you cut it, It's treachery to the nation whose servants these men & women are supposed to be.

Do you have any sense of proportion?

"Here is Trump, trying to reverse the fortunes of America and to bring about a semblance of honest transaction within govt,"

I have literally no idea how any sane person would come to that conclusion, even if your only evidence was the wholly unmediated evidence of his own words and tweets.

Although he may well reverse the fortunes of America, I'll give you that.