Clinton V Trump - into the final three weeks.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

new thread. :)

That's my view of how Clinton supporters express themselves.

To repeat what I said earlier
"I don't have a particular high view of Clinton, make no mistake. But as she is the only alternative to trump, she'd get my vote."
With this in mind, my views are focused on how dangerous trump is. You are answering these with "well, you're just a useful idiot Clinton supporter". I am a Clinton supporter I guess, but only by default and I am certainly not a staunch defender of her, hence your retorts have little effect on my opinion as they focus on criticising a woman who I admit has plenty to criticise. I really wish she hadn't won the primaries as I think the obvious criticisms of her give trump supporters an easy target.

I looked at that insults link. It includes thing like 'very weak on immigration' and 'failed policies'. Don't get it - are candidates not supposed to say that stuff?

It might be all over but the shouting... but there will be a lot of shouting. Trump won't go quietly into the night and his fucking insane supporters won't either. He'll be banging on about it being fixed for years, as he won't be able to accept that he's lost

Why do you have to write fucking insane?
I'm not writing 'evil and cruel clinton supporters' even though that's what i think SHE is. Hillary's got to be a worse candidate than George W and he was a nincompoop.

How interesting that Trump's paranoia and resort to the vote rigging excuse are being so faithfully mirrored on here.
WinchesterWoman Mon 24-Oct-16 21:30:22
Obviously the Clinton campaign is counting on those people in the US who accept what they're spoonfed by a compliant, complicit, non sceptical media. It's obviously worked in the UK.

readandwine
How interesting that Trump's paranoia and resort to the vote rigging excuse are being so faithfully mirrored on here. grin

fucking insane?

"It’s science, stupid: Why do Trump supporters believe so many things that are crazy and wrong?"
WinchesterWoman
How interesting that when links, policies and exposures are raised, the knee jerk reaction is to ignore and resort to abuse. How like our own dear Clinton.
It's almost as if they had nothing else to say.

eternalopt

Because that's my opinion. HTH halo

I don't have a particular high view of Clinton, make no mistake. But as she is the only alternative to trump, she'd get my vote.

Given that I've only just discovered the Saturday night live sketches (thanks for the tip off Donald), I'm rather sad that it's coming to an end. Their versions of the debates are the funniest thing I've seen in a while!
Add message | Report | Message poster WinchesterWoman Tue 25-Oct-16 05:12:42
Proving that Clinton supporters truly are 'useful idiots'.

This is the entire exchange. Do you know what a useful idiot is? It's someone who campaigns or propagandises for something but doesn't understand the full implications of what they're campaigning and propagandising for. It's not just 'an idiot.' It's an actual thing, a phrase, it means something.

You didn't talk about danger, or Clinton, and you and two or three people just bam came back with straight up nastiness and sneering. You can't justify it now it's too late.

He's been insulted and accused of everything and anything others could think of.

If this is true, and he is in fact innocent of the accusations that have been made, then he is wealthy enough to take legal steps to defend his reputation.

He won't, of course, because he would be subject to the discovery process by the defendants' lawyers - and several very senior first amendment lawyers have publicly promised to act pro bono for the women accusing him of sexual harassment.

The other issue is that to claim damages for slander/ libel, you have to have a reputation left to damage ... There is an argument that Trump is now libel-proof.

Christ this is dull. Obviously all this could be said of Hillary Clinton.

Is your last long post just directed at me? Has other people's posts in there too. Anyway, yes I did call trump supporters fucking insane. Even though i put it in strike out text, I stand by it as my opinion of the majority of them. I didn't think I was going to be entering into such a heated debate when I did so, so it was a throwaway comment, but here I am and I stand by it.

Every video, documentary, news report etc I've seen of trump rallies and trump supporters has led me to that conclusion. Trump supporters are fanatical and completely blinkered to any criticism of him. I even saw one woman after the "grab them by the p*ssy" video came out saying "well, I think it's ok as women want to be objectified on some level, or they wouldn't wear make up"! Even trump himself didn't try and defend that one - he denied he'd done it and said it was just words and he was sorry for them.

Having said that, I understand to an extent why that is the case. The perfect storm has been created in parts of America with the collapse of certain industries and high unemployment. Trump has come along and whipped them up into a veritable frenzy, promising them that the jobs will return and immigrants who steal the jobs will be kept out. It doesn't matter to them that he does not have the credible policies to back this up. He's said the right thing at the right time to some desperate people. They see him as the answer to their problems and they've latched on tight.

The definition of a "useful idiot" is someone who is a propagandist for a cause whose goals they are not fully aware of. To the extent that you accuse me of being one in respect of being a Clinton supporter, I don't like the woman, but I am aware of and like her policies. If you are accusing me of being a useful idiot as a "propagandist" for keeping trump out of the White House, if you think I am not aware that this means Clinton is in the White House as a result, rest assured I am aware of this and comfortable with the result.

Briefly because I'm going out and will answer the rest later, but on 'useful idiot' - it means I think your good intentions are being exploited by powerful people whose long term goal is to reduce the power and choices of people like you, and me, in the selfish pursuit of further power - and not just enhanced wealth, but all-encompassing wealth.

Clearly there is more than one way in which useful idiot us used then, as that's not my understanding of its meaning and I checked I wasn't mistaken on Wikipedia before I posted it! Either way, I'm not being exploited thanks. I understand clintons position and policies and have made an informed choice as to who I support.

Obviously all this could be said of Hillary Clinton.

Clearly not. She has not come up with bloody stupid ideas like the Mexico wall, she has not said she would appoint judges to overturn Roe v Wade, and she hasn't talked about using her position to grab women by the pussy.

Clearly yes. She could sue over accusations about pay to play, corruption, lying, lying in an office of state, destruction of evidence, perjury, harassment, enabling sexual abuse and more. She would then be subject to further exposure and discovery; if she doesn't win, she still could be.

There is really only one meaning of useful idiot. I understand that you think you understand her policies and that you support them. That is kind of the point of the meaning of 'useful idiot'. It doesn't mean you're an idiot, or a bad person; it means your good intentions are being exploited.

Trump supporters are not fanatical or blinkered. Far from it. In most of the links I've posted theres plenty of criticism of Donald Trump. If you've read my posts, if all you've done is that, you'll find plenty of criticism.

There will be very little tension about the presidential election on the night. The bigger issue will be seeing what effect Trump has had on the senate/house races. I imagine the GOP has stopped thinking about the presidency but is extremely concerned about losing the house and senate.

Trump supporters are not fanatical or blinkered

Really? He could tell them anything as long as it tapped into their worries and insecurities..
Immigrants - chuck them out, send back 11million of them and invite them to re-apply. Build a wall to stop those bad mexican hombres from coming to the US
Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with "something terrific". Unfortunately he doesn't elaborate on what that will be
Bomb the hell out of ISIS - no more details than that really except he wouldn't tell them when he was doing this so they would have no warning. He has a "secret plan".

Then there's NATO - his remarks mean Europe is understandably very nervous of him and his ignorance. He has no foreign policy and I doubt knows the meaning of the word "diplomacy"
His supporters love that he is a businessman and not a politician. Can you imagine him poring over papers, and coping with the slow pace and minutiae of politics? I can't

There is really only one meaning of useful idiot.

If you mean "there really is only one meaning I will listen to and that's mine", then so be it, but if you're serious, I did make sure that I was using a definition from an independent source

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

I understand that you think you understand her policies

And you call me sneering!! Thanks for the patronising head pat. What about her policies do you think I don't understand!!

no - there's only one meaning. It's someone who happily propagandises for someone else, thinking they understand what they are fighting for but don't.

I'm actually not sneering - I'm really not. That's what I genuinely think. I don't think you understand that she is at the vanguard of an epochal change will will not be good for ordinary people.

Roussette: I'm not sure where you've challenged the idea that his supporters are not fanatical and blinkered there. You've just repeated what he says. Whereas I've shown links and evidence that they aren't fanatical and blinkered and can offer a critique.

nypost.com/2016/09/21/meet-the-democrats-who-are-winning-the-midwest-for-trump/

Because WW they will believe DT whatever he comes out with. They are buying into everything he says hook line and sinker. My post was illustrating some of the more bizarre intentions of his and how blinkered they are to just accept them.

Sorry if my manner of posting isn't to your high standards! That's a forum for you.... all manner of people giving an opinion, me included!

Interesting, from Michael Moore:

www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-25/michael-moore-trumps-election-will-be-biggest-fuck-you-ever-recorded-human-history

It's looking very good for Clinton right now, but I still have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach from the fear of Trump getting it.

I'm going to vote today, early voting started here yesterday. Going to take my 15 year-old daughter. She'll remember going with me to vote for the first female president for the rest of her life :)

The first reference I saw to 'Useful idiot' was in relation to Trump regarding Putin in favourable terms. Someone close to Putin was heard referring to Trump as a exactly that - a useful idiot.

So, a useful idiot, in this regard, is someone who is unable to discern Putin's real motives for his actions, and is therefore less likely to oppose them.

One reason I view Trump's supporters - and Trump himself, of course - as dangerous, apart from him having his little fingers on the red button, is his complete disregard for global warming.

There is no way that he would implement any measures which would impinge on his business interests. Clinton, on the other hand, would be far more likely to act in the common good.

For all our obsessing on the myriad reasons to vote for one other of the candidates, the biggest train hurtling down the tracks is undoubtedly climate change.

Because WW they will believe DT whatever he comes out with. They are buying into everything he says hook line and sinker. That's just something you're saying. I've shown you it's not true. There's no point just repeating what he says and then repeating that everyone believes it. That's just your opinion.

It's natural that people will think Trump supporters are useful idiots too. It's probably more likely, actually, since Clinton supporters believe themselves to be more intelligent and perceptive, and have indeed already come out with accusations of stupidity or like those of Roussette above, of being fanatical. Earlier on in the thread I was trying to explain why no inroads were made (until recently, apparently) into his popularity: it was because of this comprehensive failure to understand the impetus behind his support.

I was trying to explain why no inroads were made (until recently, apparently) into his popularity: it was because of this comprehensive failure to understand the impetus behind his support, which, rather surprisingly, Michael Moore explains quite well! ^^

Oh four mummy I'm going to have to click
I don't actually like Michael Moore, should I get over myself

Fourmummy I heart you - great piece