Clinton V Trump - into the final three weeks.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

new thread. :)

Thanks four.

Well I thought it was GREAT

All I needs it a flip chart and a pointer

(Four I really do think that's interesting and I will follow him)

I didnt get very far four

I got distracted

Who knows? One thing though - there's something very smelly about this whole thing. It's not benign by any means.

Well there is an email which I saw once and have never been able to find again

Jake Sullivan talking about clearing away Assad to square Israel with the Iran deal. That's all I know, or think I know. I need more but I can't find what I need.

I am not on Twitter but saw the link elsewhere as lots of talk about this 'bombshell' over the internet. It does make sense that 'the pipeline' will be involved. Claig was writing about the pipeline months (years?) ago. Is Obama involved? We all know that the Clinton Foundation is. How much is Huma involved? How many dead for this?

'Roland Dumas: The British prepared for war in Syria 2 years before the eruption of the crisis '

Yes, we had a Cameron fan on here once, a poster called IsitMyButt, and I posted all about the pipeline then. There are a lot of motives and players involved in the dirty war against Syria. Lots of players had to gain, but the main objectives were the pipeline and the destruction of Syria in order to create a Sunni Caliphate in prepartion for a war against Iran. But it all failed. Syria withstood the attack and Assad was beating al of the funded Jihadis and terrorists and therefore the planners of the attack against Syria lost.

Now Trump will end the tragedy and work with Putin to defeat the Jihadis.

But now the US is sending hundreds of millions of dollars in pallets of cash to Tehran? Who accept the deal then shout Death to Israel and to America on the floor of the legislature?

Jake Sullivan slid off the Clinton plane on an official ME visit to lay the groundwork for Iran some years ago.

It's so hard finding the details of what happened.

Then we have Assad freeing all the jihadis and 'allowing' them to sell oil in order to make himself look like a victim of terrorism?

"Huma Abedin's ties to the Muslim Brotherhood"

thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/292310-huma-abedins-ties-to-the-muslim-brotherhood

Hillary gets funding from Saudi Arabia and Qatar donated to the Clinton Foundation etc. Turkey backed the Muslim Brotherhood. Morsi, a Muslim Brotherhood guy, even took over Egypt until the Egyptian Army took over again. the Sunni Salafists, Takfiris, Jihadis and funded ragbag groups were turned on secular Syria and they killed Christsians and Shia and Kurds as they were aided and funded to form their Caliphate which would weaken the Shia Crescent by splitting Syria from Iran, and then the Jihadis would be turned on Iran, and after that probably Russia.

Putin understood the game, so after years of not helping, he intervened when he realised that Turkey and NATO wanted a no-fly zone so that the Jihadis could be protected from being bombed by Assad, because Assad had managed to hold on for years and could not be defeated.

The disaster led to millions of refugees, the refugee crisis in Europe and then ultimately to Brexit. The planners had assumed that Assad would fall easily just as they managed to do in Libya when Hillary said about Gaddafi "we came, we saw, he died" and laughed. But they failed.

Truimp will end it and bring peace back.

'But now the US is sending hundreds of millions of dollars in pallets of cash to Tehran?'

Yes. But in fairness to Obama, that money was Iranian money that the US froze and confiscated many years before, so when they did a deal they had to return it.

Obama was never fully committed to overthrowing Assad, unlike Hillary. Obama prevented a world war because he was not prepared to risk it over Syria, but there are lots of forces who wanted him to as well as Saudi funders and all the rest of the backers of the Jihadis.

So what does Trump do.

Abandon the red line? So some truces and local ceasefires will make progress and the civilians can get out and humanitarian aid in.

Then what? ISIS use human shields. Protective Edge showed that any operational force with scruples cannot defeat an organisation using thousands of human shields by bombing alone.

It would have to be ground forces: unless Trump left the field to Assad and Russia.

It would have to be United Nations. But the UN is held hostage by Sunni Arab sentiment.

'Then we have Assad freeing all the jihadis and 'allowing' them to sell oil in order to make himself look like a victim of terrorism?'

That is very likely to be propaganda by the backers of the Jihadis. Assad wants to protect his country from outside forces funded by Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar who are being used to destroy his country. He wants to regain control of his entire country from the foreign terrorists and mercenary Jihadis. the backers of the Jihadis spread propaganda about him to convince the public that it is worth fighting over.

The European Union was going to do a deal with Iran. Jack Straw used to fly over and they all wanted to open Iran up for business as it has huge potential and if teh US didn't join in, it would have been left out in the cold, so Obama decided to join in making a deal.

Trump is against or so he says, but we know that Trump switches all the time. Once he praised Hillary and Obama for the deal, but now he lambasts them.

We don't know what will happne in the end, but hopefully they will be able to make a deal with Iran of some sort which satisfies Israel too.

'So what does Trump do.

Abandon the red line?'

Trump was never really for the red line. What terrifies the elites is that Trump is not playing ball and will not go along with their game. He has to say "Assad is a bad guy" to keep them happy, but from what he says it is clear that he thinks the funded Jihadis are worse and he has said he wants to work with Putin to sort Isis out. So he will probably make a deal where Assad stays and the US and Russia work together and defeat all the terrorist jihadis and then all teh refugees can return and we will all have to pay to rebuild Syria that was destroyed by the backers of teh Jihadis who thought they would win easily and get their pipeline and count their profits.

Claig - Is Hector Morenco (on twitter) right about Obama?

'Then what? ISIS use human shields.'

Isis will collapse in weeks when Trump tells the Saudis and other backers to stop the game. Russia and Iran can sort them out, if Trump allows that. I don't know if he will or not. But Trump is clearly not interested in playing the elite's game and sees no benefit for the US in backing the Jihadis, so they will be abandoned by the US and the other countries backing them will be left hanging, so it wil all be over very quickly when the Jihadis' finances are cut off.

'Is Hector Morenco (on twitter) right about Obama?'

What did he say about him?

He implies (and states) that Obama and Clinton are acting together.

On the whole, Obama is a good guy, I think. he does not have a Clinton Foundation, he hasn't got rich by donations to his own charidee, he hasn't done pay for play where Qataris pay for favours etc. He has gone grey trying to save the world from world war because he is not in complete control. There are opposing factions, opposing billioanires, opposing bankers etc and they are all plotting for their own advanatge and Obama cannot stop everything, but he stopped world war, he didn't allow the crazies to start world war over Ukraine or Syria and he did a good job if you take into account all the crazies and bankers and billionaires that he had to deal with and try and control.

He made mistakes, he did some things wrong, but the pressures involved are enormous and on the whole he has not allowed the Dr Strangeloves and the crazies to start a world war for profit.

'He implies (and states) that Obama and Clinton are acting together.'

I don't know but from how I read it, Obama restrained Clinton and the rest of them as far as he could. He never followed through with teh "red line" that Cameron and John McCain and the the French wanted him to do and he prevented a world war. His policies are part of what happened but that is because it is like a tanker than cannot be easily turned round when so many backers and funders want to go to war.

On the whole, Obama is a good guy, I think

Yes, I always thought so too but then recently have been reading more about possibly negative aspects of his presidency. There is, apparently, evidence on Wikileaks of Obama and Clinton working together. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

...Jeremy hardy. I can't stand him. I would vote for Hillary Clinton over Jeremy hardy (maybe). I don't know it's a tough one.

Jeremy Hardy is one of the most decent, most principled men in public life. That statement of yours tells us more about you, WW*, than you will ever know!

*He is also one of the funniest!

Yes, Obama did work with Clinton as she was Secretary of State, but I think you have to look at the ultomate big decisions where Obama refused to escalate such as over Ukraine or Syria. He held the crazies back and that takes some doing because the billionaires are champing at the bit to start.

"Hacked Emails Reveal NATO General Plotting Against Obama on Russia Policy

Gen. Philip Breedlove, until recently the supreme commander of NATO forces in Europe, plotted in private to overcome President Barack Obama’s reluctance to escalate military tensions with Russia over the war in Ukraine in 2014, according to apparently hacked emails from Breedlove’s Gmail account that were posted on a new website called DC Leaks.

Obama defied political pressure from hawks in Congress and the military to provide lethal assistance to the Ukrainian government, fearing that doing so would increase the bloodshed and provide Russian President Vladimir Putin with the justification for deeper incursions into the country."

theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/

You've got bankers, you've got billioanires, you've got the bought and paid for political class with their charidees and their billionaire donations from countries like Saudi Arabia or wherever, champing at the bit to start, and the ultimate test is that Obama faced all the crazies down and prevented a greater war.

Jill Stein has warned that Hillary is more dangerous than Trump and that her Syrian no-fly zone policy could lead to WWIII. We even have some of our Labour 172 advocating the same thing.

Hillary has a Clinton Foundation and there are accusations of pay for play where big donors can get some of the things they want by making donations.

The reason the entire world's elite are frightened of Trump is that they know he is not in their pocket because he is a billionaire. He says the politicians are "puppets", "bought and paid for" and he will put America First and to hell with the billionaire donors and the charidees.