Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

[claig]

Oct 20th 2 am UK time.

Last chance for the Establishment to stop the Trump surge in the polls.
World leaders will be watching, Establishments will be tuning in on the edge of their seats in trepidation.

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

Round 3. Rock'n'roll.

We should not forget that Soros may well be in the background here, on Hlllllary's side.

"Massive corruption financial and otherwise that is visibly hollowing out American institutions, such as the FBI (the failure to follow investigative procedure, followed by calls for FBI Director James Comey's resignation); the Department of Justice (the "Fast and Furious" gun-walking scandal, and the Attorney General meeting with a former president whose wife is under investigation); the State Department (email leaks are still yielding up evidence of collusion between the Clinton Global Initiative and the State Department under Hillary Clinton); the IRS (targeting conservative non-profits, and raiding the businesses of private citizens, who disagree with policy); the Environmental Protection Agency's attempt to acquire power over every puddle in America) and the Executive branch in the "I have a pen and I have a phone" president's dealings with Iran.

There have also been attempts by outsiders to incite racial and religious anarchy. The entrepreneur George Soros, for example, donated $33 million to turn events in Ferguson, Missouri from a local protest into chaos.

"Instead of helping Americans to create a safer, more prosperous way of life, the Ferguson events destroyed a community, devastated small business owners, and eroded security, the rule of law, and any hope for a better future. Who benefits? Creating chaos embeds a political dependency: rather than helping people to climb out of poverty, it keeps them voting for politicians to "rescue" them."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913625/Billionaire-George-Soros-spent-33MILLION-bankrolling-Ferguson-demonstrators-create-echo-chamber-drive-national-protests.html

The framework and orderliness of the universe is made up of combinations of numbers. Check it out and learn instead of sneering. It's a totally different world.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2862243/Is-space-time-shaped-like-SPIRAL-Universe-golden-ratio-keeps-order-researchers-claim.html

www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jun/08/just-six-numbers-martin-rees-review

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth

Obama was talking at the weekend about the complexities of govt and why it's not the same as running a business.

socially engineer your own country to suit your own greed for power and money, to erode its character and destroy its nucleus by bringing in hostiles who you think you will have use for in your dream of an America without borders.

Wow!
Impressive. Did you get all that from telepathy? Crystal ball?

It's a lovely dream but does not match reality.

Martin Luther also had a dream. It hasn't matched reality yet. I wonder if it ever will. It didn't match reality then.
It's not to mean that we can't work towards it.

Humans, or indeed any other species, don't live like that and never have.

It's a good thing the founding fathers were never told about that when building up the "United States" of America, with their open borders.

The US is an example of how it can work. With richer regions and poorer regions. With local governments and a Federal government.
I'm surprised California, NY and Florida, for example, don't close borders to prevent the stem of immigrants from poorer regions and different cultures. You know, cultures where racism and sexism is still a thing.

We can work towards anything, but it's not to do with poor people and immigrants per se. The current problem is diametrically opposed cultures. The refugees & immigrants into USA between 1850 to 1950 were from various parts of Europe: Russia, Scandinavia, Ireland, Germany, Poland, etc and there was no culture shock, people got on with finding ways to put food on the table and for the most part people rubbed along well enough. Some remained poor, others became well off. These were the people who built the cities of USA.

I have spent my whole professional life working towards this goal. However, no matter how much I read or theorise, I can't reconcile two issues. One - the privileging of decision makers in all human societies and two - the inability of two opposing ideas to coexist peacefully. There is no way to reconcile these two things.

He is Establishment.

Just like Trump, then.

People who came to America from 1890 to 1950 built modern America, and gave that country its pep and vigour, but trucking in various migrants to small sleepy towns all over America is crazy.

Let me guess, the "trucked in" reference doesn't include migrants from the UK, Antipodes and Europe, right? Unless they're the wrong colour or religion, of course.

Let me guess, the "trucked in" reference doesn't include migrants from the UK, Antipodes and Europe, right?

Not at all paranoid sounding, oh no.

Every time people from different cultures come in contact with each other there is culture shock. Even in the previous two centuries with people from Europe.

The US already has a muslim population. Yes, new muslim immigrants won't fit in naturally in US society, and some may isolate themselves. I'm sure it gets better with time if they are not ostracised back.

Having said that, you seem to have a specific problem with muslim immigrants, then.

One - the privileging of decision makers in all human societies and two - the inability of two opposing ideas to coexist peacefully. There is no way to reconcile these two things.

I think you need to explain that better.

But that's not all muslim immigrants, and there's enough sexism and racism in the US.
I would imagine that people should be educated, including those immigrants by other muslims too.

That alone should not be a reason to not want immigration into the US.

No, not paranoid sounding, Southall, in light of your subsequent paragraph concentrating heavily on members of the Somali community.

Zuleika - It does not matter which community. It was a CNN report about a particular town that says it is suffering, but if you would like other examples of other newcomers not wanting anything to do with Americans in America they are easily found.

Maybe the US should kick the Amish as well then.

How do those cases relate to stopping immigration altogether?
And the bad will against Mexican immigrants, for example?

Inserting new migrants in closed communities, with no adaptation, is a recipe for disaster. But that's more due to the process than to immigration itself.

Why does a country with 80 million unemployed and a quarter of the people already there on food stamps need more people?

And to expand on a previous point, the borderless world (Hillary's dream) is a larger version of the 'communist' (it may be called by a different name) utopia, is it not? I know that this upsets some people but communism can never work because we always have the problem of some people elevating themselves (or being elevated by others) above others to positions of power*. With respect to my second point, no-one has ever been able to explain how two opposing ideas can live together peacefully. If you believe that people should be killed for theft while your neighbour believes that people should not be killed for theft, who gets to do what they believe? Both? That way lies anarchy.

• Given that this is such as obvious point, generations of powerful people have been able to work this out for themsleves while selling the utopian dream to everyone else. That way, unimaginable riches lie (for some) as we've seen time and time again.

Claig - I think that you've got the date of the final debate wrong at the beginning of this thread.

'Claig - I think that you've got the date of the final debate wrong at the beginning of this thread.'

Oh dear. What is the date please?

Why does a country with 80 million unemployed and a quarter of the people already there on food stamps need more people?

Clinton isn't suggesting more people immigrating.

Shocking, but not surprising.

Trump refuses to accept intelligence briefings on Russia:

www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-intelligence-briefing-russia-20161014-story.html

kaija

He does love putin though, maybe there is a bromance

Omg that could be what all the groping (trump) and mistress (putin) could be about!!!!!

I have only gone and solved it. They love each other but cant be together!!!!

Well that would be a relatively benign explanation at least.