Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

[claig]

Oct 20th 2 am UK time.

Last chance for the Establishment to stop the Trump surge in the polls.
World leaders will be watching, Establishments will be tuning in on the edge of their seats in trepidation.

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

Round 3. Rock'n'roll.

Claig: Members of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign discussed the political importance of pleasing billionaire George Soros in emails published by WikiLeaks.

'By the way did you see the Democrat campaigners video explanation and evidence of how they deliberate start violence at Trump rallies for the TV cameras?'

No, I haven't seen that. But it is known that they are being paid by billionaires to do that. The Establishmentare trying all the tricks they can, but as Newt Gingrich said, it is amazing that Trump is still so close in the polls.

The Establishment is worried. They know they haven't got it in the bag, just like with Brexit, and they are getting desperate. People are not telling them about whom they will really vote for, but the size of the rallies shows the difference. Hillary has ainly had about 1500 over the last few weeks and Trump gets tens of thousands.

If the Establishment can't get Hillary in, they know that they are done for.

The world has never seen anything like it. The American people have had it and are going to put Trump in.

As Don King said "we will create a whole new system. We will tear this system apart. America First .., We the people."

The elite worldwide are stunned by how fast they have lost control. Their silencing techniques, their Blairisms, their spin, their lies, their threats and tricks failed in Brexit and now they are facing their Waterloo in America, the most imporatnt and powerful country on earth.

'Members of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign discussed the political importance of pleasing billionaire George Soros in emails published by WikiLeaks.'

Yes, it is said that Soros ditched Hillary when she was running against Obama and swung behind Obama instead and that sealed her fate. Now he is backing Hillary against Trump. He has much more money than trumo and of course the Republican hierarchy aren't helping Trump

"The Republican Party Cuts Off Trump’s Cash And Leaves Their Nominee To Wither And Die"

www.politicususa.com/2016/10/08/republican-party-cuts-trumps-cash-leaves-nominee-wither-die.html

All the elite are "in it together", all petrified of Trump. Trump can't expect any help from them or the corrupt media, he can only rely on the people, the thousands who turn up at rallies and boo the corporate media and watch their lies on TV.

Yes amazing videos of rallies. I still don't understand what it is about him specifically. Why couldn't the republicans have fostered this movement with another candidate. Like, why not carly? I totally understand why not Bush, and Cruz, but they tried with Rubio and it failed miserably. I don't get his appeal. I get the appeal of the movement but I don't get his appeal at all.

the republican party is unbelievable, wonder how many top brass there are voting hc. It's very telling that the man who literally stole an election is on her side. (W i mean obvs!)

I don't get his appeal at all.

Really?

He appeals to people who are hard line Republicans and treat it like a football club.
Their brains are primed for blind adoration.
Have no respect for women.
Don't like foreigners.
Hate/fear Muslims.
Are anti-choice (see next).
Are anti-life (pro-guns).
Find simple one liners and muddled explanations appealing.
Hate the Democrats.
Hate Hillary.
Think that any fault with a woman. Is worth 10x more than if in a man.
Don't conceive of a world beyond the US, possibly even their own state.

You can pick and mix.

Favorability ratings among Hispanics (NBC/WSJ/Telemundo):

MObama +62
BObama +48
HClinton +31
Dems +31
Kaine +13
Pence -6
GOP -41
Trump -67

of course the Republican hierarchy aren't helping Trump

Of course.
What's surprising is that there are still people who haven't disowned him.
Not because of any establishment, but because of himself.
He is not Jesus Christ. He's Brian. And a nasty, vain, Brian.

See that just shows you don't really get the appeal of the movement lweji

Have you tried to understand beyond that knee jerk reaction. It goes back to what I was saying before about Clinton struggling to fight it because she doesn't understand it

His appeal is the same as Farage. Targeting a section of the population who are vulnerable, frustrated. Giving them simplistic promises whilst utterly ignoring their real ( too complex) problems. Utterly manipulating people's fears for his own ends. Treating the people or the non elite or whatever we are calling them today with utter contempt.

Honestly it's like people want his appeal to be a certain thing because it fits the rot world view. Beyond that - cannot compute.

Very good article here from Jonathan Freedland on Trump's claims of vote rigging, and on the way that black and Hispanic voters are deterred from voting.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/17/man-who-cried-rigged-problem-with-trump-election-claims

See that just shows you don't really get the appeal of the movemen

That was in reply to your own lack of understanding of his appeal, not the movement.

In any case, even those who are against establishment - and I tend to be one, just don't fall for conspiracy theories crap - should see that he's not the man for any anti-establishment movement. It's only words. And to get power for himself. He doesn't give a crap about the little people.

Honestly it's like people want his appeal to be a certain thing because it fits the rot world view.

More like, some people desperately want his appeal to be beyond that.
Sadly, it isn't.

I'll summarise it for you.

Some people are about the movement - and are sadly mistaken if they think he's genuine about the movement.
Many people have always voted GOP and will.
Many people are anti-abortion, anti- foreigners, pro-guns, etc and will never vote Democrat.
Some people will follow what looks like a strong leader with appealing words, particularly a celebrity, without thinking. Add to that the limited education, particularly about world issues, and how knowledge is frowned upon these days, and it'a a dangerous mix.
Plus, some people will never vote for a woman against any man.
This is not simplistic at all. It's reality.

I totally understand people wanting something different. Normally, a Republican candidate would be expected to be in front. The Republicans have turned their own guts to support Trump.
It's just not working.

We'll see in a few weeks.

'. I still don't understand what it is about him specifically. Why couldn't the republicans have fostered this movement with another candidate. Like, why not carly? '

Because all of the others are Establishment. They all support the corporate free trade deals, they are all globalists, they are all for war-like talk, they all do what they are told by the hierarchy. Carly is very capable, she could have taken Hillary apart, but she agrees with the Establishment on most issues.

This is a rebellion, the people want change, they want to smash the hierarchy. As Don King said

"we will create a whole new system. We will tear this system apart. America First ... We the people."

'I don't get his appeal. I get the appeal of the movement but I don't get his appeal at all.'

His appeal is that only he can deliver that change. He is not politically correct, he mocks Bush, the elite nd the Establishment. He says the system is rigged, he calls the politicians "puppets", be is not "bought and paid for", he is totally fearless and says what the people really think.

And therefore only he can beat the combined force of the bankers, Wall Street, the hedge funds, the media, the world leaders and elites who are all ranged against him.

I don't think it's as complicated as you've all said. People have heard it all before, with Hillary, with Cameron, with Blair (I got fooled by Blair in '97). Trump has taken a steamroller and driven it through the lies, which people knew were always there but didn't know how to relate to. I tried to listen to one of her speeches recently and wandered off. That's actually true. She has nothing to say. We all know what she's going to say before she says it. I could have written her speech for her. Trump has made it possible for ordinary people to say, "Why is that bearded 30-year old with stubble being called a 'child'?" or "Why do we need more people when 80 million of us are struggling?". Hillary says "I'm going to address your concerns by giving you more of the same'. His appeal, from my reading of it, is that he doesn't even need answers! People are ridiculously pleased at just being able to ask these questions (which says more about our society than Hillary's speeches ever will). People who don't understand his appeal are focusing on the answers part and not enough on the actual questions that come before.

"Trump, Sanders and the American Rebellion

As institutions lose respect, voters think: Let’s take a chance."

What is happening in American politics?

We’re in the midst of a rebellion. The bottom and middle are pushing against the top. It’s a throwing off of old claims and it’s been going on for a while, but we’re seeing it more sharply after New Hampshire. This is not politics as usual, which by its nature is full of surprise. There’s something deep, suggestive, even epochal about what’s happening now.

I have thought for some time that there’s a kind of soft French Revolution going on in America, with the angry and blocked beginning to push hard against an oblivious elite."

www.wsj.com/articles/trump-sanders-and-the-american-rebellion-1455236273

The Establishment are desperate. They are calling for help from all over the world. The "bought and paid for" across the planet are heeding their call. Oxbridge is sending ther finest to help with spin, spinners are on trains and planes making ther way to Washington to help. World leaders are fltying over. Blairites have been summoned. The whole world's crooks and cheats have been called upon to help and great rewards have been promised them if they can stop Trump and the people.

Trump laughs, he is fearless, his rallies grow larger as he keeps telling the truth.

"tried to listen to one of her speeches recently and wandered off"

That is probably quite a crucial point, although this says more about attention spans than the content of what she was saying. Trump speaks, at his best, like a dysfunctional 8 year old and in an age of click bait and sound bites this travels a lot further than any amount of reasoned argument.

in an age of click bait and sound bites this travels a lot further than any amount of reasoned argument.
Yes.
Particularly when one is an accomplished show man. And a man.
There's quite a large percentage of the population that doesn't care for what women say.

There's quite a large percentage of the population that doesn't care for what women say.

Yes, there's some truth in that, which is why feminists stress that it's not about the person but the message. Being a woman does not preclude you from being uninspiring, boring and 'old hat' (much like being black does not mean that you can't be racist). Feminist ideology transcends the individual. 'It's about masculinity, not men', 'It's about racism, not ethnicity' sort of thing. There's still a long way to go in getting that message across.

Back to Hillary - she is not perceived as a feminist (lots of references to this), despite that word being rammed down the populations's throat, because she does not send out a feminist message despite being a woman (an example of this is the lack of care over the women and girls whose lives she has destroyed in her actions in Libya).

So what does rebellion look like?
violence, riots, shootings, cities burning, military called in, dictatorship. war.

Isn't that how it usually goes? fun. can't wait.

Being a woman does not preclude you from being uninspiring, boring and 'old hat'

Quite frankly, if you vote based on how boring or not a candidate is, then not much can be done. Trump is clearly less boring than Hillary. For all the wrong reasons, but certainly less boring.
She'll never be a show woman.

But I still don't understand why a feminist would vote for Trump rather than Hillary.
You may not think she represents you, but Trump does? How?