Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

[claig]

Oct 20th 2 am UK time.

Last chance for the Establishment to stop the Trump surge in the polls.
World leaders will be watching, Establishments will be tuning in on the edge of their seats in trepidation.

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

Round 3. Rock'n'roll.

Or, more to the point, how is a sexual predator more feminist than Hillary?

The misogyny accusation doesn't work on uk sovial conservatives who are happy with Teresa may

That's diversion.
We're not discussing the UK...
And how many women have been elected as Tory or Labour leaders so far?
Who actually wanted to lead Brexit at this point?

Carly is very capable, she could have taken Hillary apart, but she agrees with the Establishment on most issues.

I think Hillary would have held her own quite well.

But it's a reminder that this election is being conducted in a way that nursery schools would recognise. Everything has been so viscerally personal. Because Trump can't operate at any other level, and that's been to Hillary's disadvantage because she's a grown up.

In other elections, the good candidates hone their arguments in debate, and are forced out of their comfort zones: exposed on policy provisions etc.

poster SadTed Sun 16-Oct-16 14:25:23
Nope Hillary is unhinged, what kinda sick bastard gets a paedo of the hook for the rape of a 12 year old girl you clearly don't know how defence works my fil is a QC and all defence barristers job is to get there client found not guilty end of my fil has got some people off however the law in the uk and the us is your found not guilty you are innocent

And you will be surprised what barristers laugh about if you really think the prosecution you are in dream land sadly most barristers don't give a shit about there clings it's usually about winning it has one on the highest rates of physcopath personality traits

Donald trump was sued because he refused to rent to black people nither is a fab its a choice between a kick in the teeth and a punch in the face I think

Lweji - I found her uninspiring and boring when I tried to listen to her. She's going to deliver exactly what has been delivered already (or worse). I know this already (but, of course, others may find her ok). People are now wising up to the separation between 'woman' and message, and are realising that women can be anti-feminist just as black people can be racist and homosexuals can be homophobic. The message trumps (sorry) the messenger. That's why it's a bit pointless celebrating a 'woman' candidate on account of her sex only. That's why it's a bit pointless honing in on Trump's horrible persona. People know this. This is why the GE and Brexit happened.

I agree with you fourmummy, I think most would, but with Trump what else is there to focus on? His amazing policies? His generosity in helping others less fortunate? I can't find a single redeeming quality about him.

If the Establishment can't get Hillary in, they know that they are done for

This is so true, because she is the 'inside man' for all the foreign powers, dictators, multinationals, special interest groups of every kind. Methinks her campaign people are going to pull something out of the bag that might hobble Trump. Whatever is presented may not be true, but it will be done just a few days away from voting day and will throw people into a quandry.

Listen carefully to what he is saying (in his non-coached way). Foreign wars aren't inevitable, terrorism isn't inevitable, a genuine effort to work towards creating jobs for people already in the country. When was the last time you heard anyone say that foreign wars aren't inevitable? He's saying that he'll break the inevitability of where we've been heading. Whether he'll do it is another matter but that's not even important. People are listening because they just want to be left alone and not subjected to all this 'inevitable' stuff that has blighted their lives for so long.

I don't get his appeal

He's not afraid of losing his seat in the Senate and can therefore be as blunt as he likes.

I agree, Fourmummy. Trump has put into words what previously was not spoken of. He has dared to say out loud - the Emperor is not wearing any clothes; all of you know this and you no longer have to pretend.

Less and less people now are in that bewildered state, knowing something is amiss in their country but unable to put their finger on it, and the explanations given to them not making sense.

"World war III 'inevitable' Turkey warns there WILL be all-out nuclear war – because nobody can stop America and Russia coming to blows over Syria

Deputy Prime Minister, Numan Kurtulmus said the conflict had put the world "on the brink of the beginning of a large regional or global war"."

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1994442/turkey-warns-there-will-be-all-out-nuclear-war-because-nobody-can-stop-america-and-russia-coming-to-blows-over-syria/

Jill Stein of the Green Party says that Hillary with nukes is more dangerous than Trump.

As the most important election on earth draws to a close, some US commentators on the web are saying that the global elite might even risk a war in order to save themselves.

"They want to start World War III over Syria. Give me a break," Trump said at the State Fairgrounds in Oklahoma City."

thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/255052-trump-gop-rivals-want-to-start-world-war-iii-over-syria

And here we have Trump, despised by the global elite, partly because he won't toe the war line

"Mr. Trump told Mr. Savage that the United States’ current leadership, as well as Mrs. Clinton, was too aggressive against Mr. Putin.

“They insult him constantly — I mean, no wonder he can’t stand Obama and Hillary Clinton,” Mr. Trump said, calling the tensions a “very serious problem.”

“It is the worst situation that we’ve had with Russia since the end of the Cold War, by far,” he said

Mr. Trump added that “she shouldn’t be talking so tough” about Russia, and he suggested, as he has repeatedly in recent months, that Russia could be an ally in fighting the Islamic State."

www.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/us/politics/russia-putin-trump.html

How is it a diversion? It's proof we judge on policies not sex.

But I still don't understand why a feminist would vote for Trump rather than Hillary

Because there is something far more fundamental at stake here. A country's erosion at high level has to be tackled first. It is concealed by well-placed people who should be improving Americans' lives (which they are tasked to do) but they are not.

You don't call in the decorators (cosmetic) before you remove that dirty great tree that has fallen into your roof (structural).

There is a great deal of money to be made out of wars. Still popular with armament manufacturers for one.

Quite frankly, I'd vote for Bobo the Clown if he stops us going to war.

Here is Dr Paul Craig Roberts, former US Treasury Secretary under Reagan. He has been warning about the dangers of war for a long time. But he is an outlier and hopefully totally wrong. But all over our newspapers, we now see stories beating war drums over Syria which has gone on for 6 years and now as the election draws to a close and as Trump challenges the elite, we are now being warned that world war may be coming.

Let's hope this is all just done for the election as the elite try to stop Trump. Why have world war over Syria which has been going on for 6 years already?

Vladimir Putin will 'easily ANNIHILATE' the West as NATO 'faces collapse'

"VLADIMIR Putin has the power to trigger the ‘collapse’ of NATO if war comes between Russia and the US over Syria, an expert has warned.
...
He said the advent of World War 3 would see NATO “collapse” as European nations quickly withdraw from the treaty in the face of Russian nuclear power."

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/553740/Vladimir-Putin-Russia-NATO-Syria-War-Collapse-Warning-World-War-3

Who on earth wants this stuff over Syria? Trump talks peace and deals and business, and in the papers we read about war over Syria.

"Mass exodus at Deutsche Bank as it plans to obliterate US jobs amid collapse fears

BANKERS at crisis hit Deutsche Bank are deserting the company as confidence in Germany's largest lender hits an all time low."

www.express.co.uk/news/world/722015/Mass-exodus-at-Deutsche-Bank-as-it-plans-to-obliterate-US-jobs-amid-collapse-fears

Lots of commentators have been warning what is coming. After the election things will probably only get worse.

Who will be running America? Who will lead the free world? Who can save the world from war as the global elites' policies fail and as financial collapse gets closer? Who can be tough enough to do deals that save everybody from reckless policies that lead us into pointless wars to attempt to save financial global elites.

Listen carefully to what he is saying (in his non-coached way). Foreign wars aren't inevitable, terrorism isn't inevitable, a genuine effort to work towards creating jobs for people already in the country. When was the last time you heard anyone say that foreign wars aren't inevitable? He's saying that he'll break the inevitability of where we've been heading.

Have you been following any international news at all???
Any of the work done by Obama?

Even anything that Trump has said about getting into wars if there's a financial gain?

Obama???

Anyone seen the Adam cutis video hanging around fb

"If the United States remains in combat in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria until the end of Mr. Obama’s term — a near-certainty given the president’s recent announcement that he will send 250 additional Special Operations forces to Syria — he will leave behind an improbable legacy as the only president in American history to serve two complete terms with the nation at war."

www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/obama-as-wartime-president-has-wrestled-with-protecting-nation-and-troops.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

'Anyone seen the Adam cutis video hanging around fb'

Thanks for reminding us. I saw it mentioned on the BBC last night, called "Hypernormalisation", I think.

Curtis is very perceptive. Will watch it.

Who has direct financial interests in wars? Who actually has conflicts of interest outside the US (not to mention inside)?

See, for example:
europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-foreign-business-deals-national-security-498081?rm=eu

"an enterprise with deep ties to global financiers, foreign politicians and even criminals, although there is no evidence the Trump Organization has engaged in any illegal activities. It also reveals a web of contractual entanglements that could not be just canceled. If Trump moves into the White House and his family continues to receive any benefit from the company, during or even after his presidency, almost every foreign policy decision he makes will raise serious conflicts of interest and ethical quagmires."

"The Trump Organization is not like the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation [...]. The financials audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers, [...] show that about 90 percent of the money it raised went to its charitable programs. ( Trump surrogates have falsely claimed that it was only 10 percent and that the rest was used as a Clinton “slush fund.” ) No member of the Clinton family received any cash from the foundation, nor did it finance any political campaigns. In fact, like the Clintons, almost the entire board of directors works for free."

Read about his interest in investing in Russia, his dealings and conflicts with South Korea (through Daewo, to provide armament!), India, Turkey, UAE, Lybia (during Khadafi), Ukraine, etc A huge list.

"Never before has an American candidate for president had so many financial ties with American allies and enemies, and never before has a business posed such a threat to the United States. If Donald Trump wins this election and his company is not immediately shut down or forever severed from the Trump family, the foreign policy of the United States of America could well be for sale."

(sorry for the long post and quotes)

Curtis is Oxbridge and BBC, so it wouldn't surprise me if some of it is anti Trump, but it may not be. I will have to watch it because Curtis is good a lot of the time.