Trump vs Clinton Round 2. Bigger debate than the last one.

[claig]

Round 2, Monday morning 2 am UK time.

Will "the real Trump" show up?

But in all honesty, WW, anyone on the outside cannot see this genuiness you talk of. Would people put the words Donald Trump, moved, genuine in the same sentence? I just can't see it.

I do think he has a vision, I give you that. Maybe he thinks his vision will benefit the US. But he is going for the biggest position in the world and he will influence vulnerable and desperate people, those that are scared and ignorant about the bigger picture and he influences them with soundbites and rhetoric. But, hey, maybe that's what politics is all about..

The big worry to me is his character. He is an ego driven, power hungry man with unbelievably huge insecurities. He cleverly works out what will excite the voters and just exploits it. But he doesn't actually care. He just wants to win whatever the cost. He isn't principled, he isn't a good man, he doesn't have a strong moral compass, he isn't a role model. So on character alone he is a dangerous man AFAIC. We all know about the misogyny and racism but I'm talking about the core of him. His emotional health. He is to be pitied as well as feared.

WW, I don't sneer at anyone feeling lost and hopeless. I don't sneer at all actually. But I have stopped feeling as if I can't say that the people backing Trump because he gives them licence to say racist, sexist, ignorant things (which polls suggest is a pretty decent chunk of his supporters) are disenfranchised in a way that I feel bad about. They are disenfranchised in a world that seeks to advance equality, and they are driven by fear and prejudice, and a resentment that white men no longer get it completely easy.

The sad thing is that Trump's policies would likely be disastrous for the disadvantaged people of the US. Politics has come very low that some of them feel he is the answer, that he is genuine, that he cares about them. That makes me very angry.

You can see the enormous changes in politics worldwide by watching Alistair Campbell on the political chat shows hawking the 5th volume of his diaries. No one cares about them any more, itt's history, it's over. No one likes Blair apart from Progress, some Fabians and some Oxbridge graduates. Even Campbell says he sometimes would love to be back in the thick of it but he says "my time is up". Everything has changed, the people have moved on to Corbyn, Bernie and Trump and the Establishment and all their graduates are struggling to hold the people down.

Just like the Guardian was on the wrong side of Cologne and couldn't sway the people and just like Cameron was on the wrong side of Brexit and his spin couldn't sway the people, in the US the Establishment only has leaked tapes left to try and sway the people.

Without the leaked tapes, Trump would beat them. That is how desperate things are for them. The whole world watches and can't believe that the whole election depends on the insulting and coarse language that Trump uses in the most important democracy on earth whose policies affect the lives of everyone on the planet.

Trump has overturned the entire applecart and challenged all their sacred cows and disagrees with his VP, Pence, on Syria and lots of other things. Control has slipped from their grasp.

He has played some blinders:

Debate 1 - she'd been around power for 30 years. What had she actually achieved?

Debate 2: She was thankful that Trump didn't control the justice system. He said she would be in jail if he did.

Debate 3:

Can I just say - it doesn't matter if rappers say it: it's not a word that's acceptable and it's not ok to say ,that because it's been 'reclaimed' then white people can say it with impunity. It's just not ok.

Claig what do you believe Oxbridge graduates should be doing, apart from not interfering in politics? What should their role be in society? Because you seem to use it as a pejorative term; 'what do THEY know?'.

what do you believe Oxbridge graduates should be doing, apart from not interfering in politics

I know a few Oxbridge graduates that do science. :)

Debate 1 - she'd been around power for 30 years. What had she actually achieved?

I found it funny that he expected her to do as Senator the same as the President.

I wonder why she didn't ask him about what he achieved in his 30 and more years in business. For example, what lessons he learnt from his bankruptices that he wouldn't repeat as President. Maybe she's saving it for the last debate.

'what do you believe Oxbridge graduates should be doing, apart from not interfering in politics? What should their role be in society? '

They should be working for the best interests of the people as many of them do, not be servants of the Establishment as too many of the prominent ones promoted by the Establishment do.

'I know a few Oxbridge graduates that do science.'

Absolutely, there are some good climate change sceptics from Oxbridge.

Absolutely, there are some good climate change sceptics from Oxbridge.

Don't be daft.

'I wonder why she didn't ask him about what he achieved in his 30 and more years in business. '

She can't because she made her money out of politics, connections and influence whereas Trump made his money through business.

The Clinton Foundation was not gone into at all, and she has made lots of money from that, charity.

Climate change scepticism isn't science, it's stupidity.

I'm interested in your definition of The Establishment. Does it include doctors, nurses and teachers, who work to strict government directives, and could be viewed as instruments of the establishment? Do you believe that we should all be loose cannons and work for ourselves, with no governmental intervention?

'Does it include doctors, nurses and teachers, who work to strict government directives, and could be viewed as instruments of the establishment?'

Absolutely not. The Establishment is a tiny circle of very rich people.

Sir Jimmy Savile, Sir Cyril Smith and Sir Rolf Harris were all knighted by the Establishment, and some coverups possibly also went on due to the tiny clique that influence events.

It has been asked before, but here it goes.
Being so few, who are they?

'who are they?'

I don't know. But Trump is fighting them in America and they are throwing everything they have at him as the world watches.

Donald J. Trump Verified account 
‏@realDonaldTrump

The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA

"Trump and Sanders lead two-headed insurgency against establishment

Outsiders of right and left are channelling frustration with political elites as seeds sown by the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street bear fruit in popular movements"

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/23/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-lead-two-headed-insurgency-against-establishment

The Establishment are on the ropes. They have madated ther minions to search all TV tape archives and run thousands of hours of off-camera comments by Trump through voice recognition software in search of a single comment that will end the populist insurgency against them.

So, are they like a homeopathic remedy? A group so tiny that it's invisible and their actions are in the minds of those who believe in it?

I can answer. The Establishment is anyone who has criticised UKIP or Trump. Remarkably many for a select few.

Does that mean I'm Establishment?
Where's my money?

Lweji - you could get a grant from George Soros?

I have been asking what the establishment is but never got an answer

Corbyn seems to know and something about golden circles but won't give anymore unfo as they can only be dealt with once he is in power

< as I have been left out

'Corbyn seems to know and something about golden circles'

The exact and accurate term that Corbyn used to describe them was "magic circle" and he wasn't referring to Zebedee and Ermintrude, although some of them do look a bit like Ermintrude in bad lighting.