Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

[claig]

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

Corbyn’s home in North London is worth an estimated £650,000. That is plenty of money. He could sell that and give everyone in the UK a penny. Why doesn’t he do that if he is so communist?

m.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/politics/how-rich-is-labour-leader-jeremy-corbyn/11776.article?mobilesite=enabled

Don't know how long he's owned it but considering how London prices have escalated he'll have paid a fraction of that for it

'He rebelled over over bloody thing.'

Corbyn rebelled in order to get socialist policies. He rebelled against everything that was Tory-lite, which is why he is the biggest rebel in UK political history. He stood up for socialism and his principles.

'What's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander'

If the Establishmentarians wish to join Corbyn on a Stop the War march rebelling against wars and policies like that, then Corbyn would welcome them with open arms even if they continued "their sniping".

Claig

It would be interesting to see how many of your 172 were

a) part ofthe 139 LP MP's that rebelled againstthe Iraq war
b) were elected after 2005

I suspect many are in at least one of the above camps - which dispells your views of establishment Blairite etc

You may want to read this

www.revolts.co.uk/The%20Mother%20of%20All%20Rebellions.pdf

'It would be interesting to see how many of your 172 were

a) part ofthe 139 LP MP's that rebelled againstthe Iraq war
b) were elected after 2005'

I agree. It would also be interesting to see how many of them are socialists.

You do not have to be a 'socialist' in the the purist sense to be in the labour party (Corbyn isn't is he)

Nor do you have to agree with Corbyn to be a socialist

Nor does being selected after 2005 make you a 'socialist' either.

My point was that you believe that all of the 172 are warmongering 'Blairites' (your definition not mine) analysis of data if it is available will probably show that that is not the case

But that also does not mean they are socialist either (remember LP is a Broad church)

Correlation is different to causation

I didn't actually believe anyone supported Corbyn

'My point was that you believe that all of the 172 are warmongering 'Blairites' '

No, I don't believe all of them are, but I think most of them are just "career climbers" prepared to back austerity policies, prepared to vote for curtailment of the people's civil liberties with Blair's biometric ID cards and DNA databases because they think that will please their whips, get them noticed and get them some trips and positions on committees. When it comes to principle, I don't think they can hold a candle to Corbyn and nor do the majority of Labour members, who are being ignored and insulted by the 172 who think they are more important than the members.

They, and the Oxbridge soinners and PR consultants who work for them, must think the public are stupid as they dripfeed their Corbyn "bully" stories such as Corbyn saying to Conor soandso, a whip, that he would ask his dad to speak to him after Conor, who hardly anybody has heard of, criticised Corbyn. They want us to believe that Corbyn is a bully and a monster. That shows how they underestimate the public and can't read its mood.

Corbyn is going to trounce the Establishment yet again, despite of all their spin and stories .

"Jeremy Corbyn has more than double the support of Owen Smith, poll shows"

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-more-double-support-owen-smith

Everyday all over the summer, a new story will emerge of Corbyn "the bully", ebveryday a new Blairite will appear on TV to spin teh same line, and everyday Corbyn's polls will go higher because the people aren't as stupid as the spinners think.

Everyday all over the summer, a new story will emerge of Corbyn "the bully", ebveryday a new Blairite will appear on TV to spin teh same line, and everyday Corbyn's polls will go higher because the people aren't as stupid as the spinners think.

Not everyone who opposes Corbyn is a Blairite.

The 'public mood' may be very different to Labour members.

Members do not equal constituents or Labour voters. Despite what Corbyn supporters may think.

For example

'The 'public mood' may be very different to Labour members.'

I doubt it. Look at Brexit, it was a revolution for the people to disobey their spinners and Establishment bigwigs. It is the same with Corbyn. They won't listen to Stephen Kinnock however many times the BBC puts him on. Corbyn's polls ar low because the public is fed up with all teh sniping against him by the media and the stooges, but my guess is they prefer authentic Corbyn to Oxbridge Stephen Kinnock and the 172.

If you look at "they work for you" you can see how anybody has voted in the past.

Corbyn has voted eg against ID cards, against the Iraq war, for the inquiry into the Iraq war, & against snooping, & there are generally repeated votes about any individual bit of legislation, so the numbers can be a bit misleading.

Unlike many, he votes with his conscience. Even if you don't agree with his conscience, do you think toeing the party line is always preferable? The few Tories who have voted against eg welfare cuts have been lauded recently.

I know he has faults, & that some of what is being complained about recently is disappointing, but I am still hoping that the PLP will unite behind him & give proper opposition a chance.

The reason Theresa May and Hammons are at 53% on the economy is because they are conservatives (and that brand is positive for teh economy) and because the conservatives avoided a leadership election by their tricks to get Leadsom out of the race. If the Conservatives had a long drawn out leadership contest, May's polls would have been affected.

Corbyn has had an endless media and stooge sniping campaign against him for months with the media praising Hillary Benn, the Tories giving him a standing ovation, the BBC inviting COrbyn critics on etc etc. that has inevitably negatively impacted Corbyn. And now the stooges are in overdrive mode, with a new "bully Corbyn" story every single day.

But after Corbyn wins and if he shows strong leadership, the BBC will have to return to business as usual and Corbyn's polls will rise.

I love how claig posts poll after poll (some of which are very out of date, so do click on ever link she posts to check, don't take stuff at face value) but if someone posts a poll that disagrees with her point of view (or any other Corbynista, for that matter) suddenly polls are meaningless rubbish.

I agree that Corbyn is authoritarian. He'd be right at home in the totalitarian Latin American nations he adores so much. No thanks.

I am still hoping that the PLP will unite behind him & give proper opposition a chance.

How long do you want them to give him?

If there is a snap general election in the autumn and Labour loses many seats what then?

To be the leader you actually have to lead. That is what the PLP are complaining he hasn't done.

So if they aren't Blairites they are Oxbridge (but some oxbridge can be socialist yes - oh and again LSE is the powerhouse of economic and political thought but ho hum). If they aren't either of those they are career climbers. Isn't the constant shifting sands of your argument tiring?

It is possible to see the situation as it AND think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion, distance of the politicians to the public, impact of social media etc. It is not a black and white situation. It never is.

However if you look at the fundamentals of a democracy one of which is a functioning opposition. That is the first priority for me. Corbyn is preventing this - to his own aims. To ensure stability for our country we need to take it one step at a time. We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.

If there is a snap general election in the autumn and Labour loses many seats what then?

Then it'll be another 5 years to the next one & IME he's entitled to have a proper crack at it without being undermined all the time. (Smith or A N Other leader wouldn't win in the autumn either)

If, after 2-3 years of working together to build a proper opposition, they're still viewed negatively, then he should stand down.

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh-wen

Owen was on TV today and they fed him an entry into today's "Corbyn bully" story and he declined to go for it. Even Owen is beginning to realise that all this talk of Corbyn bullying the 172 is backfiring with the public.

So it looks like Corbyn wants to switch the message and go for the thing that makes Corbyn so popular with Labour members and the general public (including non Labour voters) - his principles.

"Owen Smith says Jeremy Corbyn's principles are 'just hot air'
...
"He's a principled man and someone who has got deep Labour values, but our question is 'can he take the Labour party to where we need to be?'

"Because without winning elections, without Labour being a serious party of government again, then all the principles are just hot air."

He added: "What's the point of being in this game?"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/owen-smith-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-government-general-election-conservative-party-a7153371.html

It sounds like Owen is ready to throw the towel in. He has only been in the "game" since 2010 when he became an MP and he is laready questioning the "point" of the "game". Will he go back to Pfizer? He can't do that, he is the 172's last hope.

Owen has been an MP since 2010 and thinks he can do a better job than Corbyn who has been an MP since before Noah built the ark, and has been a socialist all that time while Owen was at Pfizer.

A Corbyn rally is jam-packed with enthususiastic socialists and there is no such thing as an Owen rally - instead it is a man from Pfizer and his dog, 3 Oxbridge graduates and a senior Establishmentarian taking notes on Owen's diction and hand gesture performance. While Corbyn rails about Cuba, Iraq and Venezuela, Owen wonders what the point of being in the "game" is.

I don't know what the odds are, but I don't fancy the 172's chances.

Low he cannot work together - he can not lead they will not follow. That is at all levels of the party - not just the PLP.

I am always amazed that people think MP's have to blindly follow - especially as Corbyn never has. How can you lead if you can not follow? He has flaws in his abilities

In the mean time lets not have a democracy - as we wouldn't have a functioning opposition - just so we can give Corbyn enough time to work out how to lead - he is worth that? Worth more than the LP? Worth more than our democracy?

Claig I think you forgot to answer

*So if they aren't Blairites they are Oxbridge (but some oxbridge can be socialist yes - oh and again LSE is the powerhouse of economic and political thought but ho hum). If they aren't either of those they are career climbers. Isn't the constant shifting sands of your argument tiring?

It is possible to see the situation as it AND think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion, distance of the politicians to the public, impact of social media etc. It is not a black and white situation. It never is.

However if you look at the fundamentals of a democracy one of which is a functioning opposition. That is the first priority for me. Corbyn is preventing this - to his own aims. To ensure stability for our country we need to take it one step at a time. We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.*

Oxbridge again? London School of Economics and Political science - the clue is in the title - established by the Webbs et al

Yes, the LSE was the Fabians' creation and doubtless the think tanks and advisers contain many people from there, but the front figures are mainly from Oxford with a PPE, whether Labour or Tory.

'think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion'

There has been a huge shift in public opinion, an anti-establishment mood that has taken the elites by surprise. Their spin has failed to work against it and the "Corbyn bully" line is just more of their failed spin.

Are there any polls of the public comparing Corbyn to Blair, or Angela Eagle or Hillary Benn or Owen? I am sure that Corbyn woud win them all.

'We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.*'

That is what the Establishment thought but then the people voted Brexit. The mood of the public has changed. The tired old Establishment spinners invited onto the BBC no longer influence most people. That's why we had Brexit and that is why Corbyn could be next if he is strong enough to control his party.

Claig if you really believe Oxbridge is the most important in political circles now I am afraid you are mistaken - especially as you believe the 'establishment' tries to take control

Your views are very linear. Of course they are. I'm afraid that Corbyn can not control 'his' party, It is not 'his' party to control.

'if you really believe Oxbridge is the most important in political circles now I am afraid you are mistaken'

I don't think they are important. I think they are promoted because they come from Oxford, that is all.

Oh Claig - that is just a degree and a person. Influence is often from behind

'I'm afraid that Corbyn can not control 'his' party, It is not 'his' party to control.'

This is what the election is all about. The 172 are challenging the leader who has the largest mandate in UK history, who was voted in in a landslide just 10 months ago and who has increased membership in a time of political apathy to levels not seen for decades, and who leads a party that had 183,000 join in one day, more than the entire conservative party membership and whose rallies are packed out, whereas even the BBC's Norman Smith was nowhere to be seen at Angela Eagle's leadership challenge announcement.

The reason this election is important for all of us (not just Labour voters) is because it shows what lengths teh Establishment will go to to remove a leader with the largest popular mandate in UK history and a man who has reinvigorated socialist politics and enthused young people. If the Establishment win, it is business as usual, if Corbyn wins, the people and democracy win.

As this article says

"Jeremy Corbyn And The People Versus The Media

In future history classrooms, students will likely be told the tale of the tag-team assault on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn by the mainstream media and MPs. It will be taught as a harbinger of what is erupting into the most pivotal crisis facing Western politics in half a century: the chasm between ordinary people and the elites. We are seeing it with the Republican establishment’s failed efforts to derail the Trump train and the Democratic establishment’s more successful efforts to extinguish the Bern.
...
These platforms have become stages upon which a rebuff is occurring, one as embarrassing to the MsM as the leadership vote. Article after article, Youtube video after video produced by the MsM touts the official talking points proclaiming Corbyn and other Left figures’ incompetence, bigotry, unpopularity etc. In every one of these, however, a quick scroll down to the comments section reveals hundreds of real people, almost exclusively saying the opposite of what the article/video instructed them to think."

www.huffingtonpost.com/kadira-pethiyagoda/jeremy-corbyn--the-people_b_11048424.html

And as Kevin McKenna said

"Kevin McKenna: Why the powers that be fear Jeremy Corbyn

Words like "unedifying" and "unpleasant" don’t even begin to describe the campaign that the British establishment have undertaken to destroy Jeremy Corbyn. Try "sinister" and "malevolent" and "venomous" instead. Yet, when you assess the nature of the forces which are lined up against him and then observe how his very name brings them to a point where they begin to boil and froth, then you know Mr Corbyn must be a good man."

------

Go Corbyn! For democracy and the people.

But he's not interested in democracy, at least not when he's in charge. He wants to control the party absolutely, for a small number of party members, who are vastly outnumbered by the general public and Labour voters. I don't know anyone who would vote for someone so authoritarian.

'But he's not interested in democracy, at least not when he's in charge.'

No he doesn't. He has bent over backwards to accommodate Hillary Benn and the stooges who have sniped against him and even insulted from day one, who have openly criticised him on TV and not kept their criticisms private. They have harmed the image of the Labour Party because they have made it look like a shower with lots of MPs having no faith in the leader voted in in a landslide by the members.

Corbyn wants members to be able to vote on policies, to reinstate conference voting etc, to bring members into policy decision making to reflect the views of ordinary people rather than just the Establishment MPs. That is real democracy where the members get a say in what the policies are.

'who are vastly outnumbered by the general public and Labour voters'

The Labour Party is the party of its members and should reflect their wishes and then argue for those in a united fashion to the public. The public wants a better health service, it wants more and cheaper housing, it wants more investment in job creation, it wants fewer Iraqs, Libyas and Syrias, it wants better education. If teh members decide, then there will be real socialist policies rather than the Tory-lite ones which were meant to appeal to Sun readers.