Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

[claig]

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

[eatsleephockeyrepeat]

Well aren't you charming NotDavid! It needn't be bitter; but if you're determined to be then you've articulated a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And no, it's not ideal to be in this position, but let's not go back over how we got here. Both campaigns have started on the foot of bringing people together. As a Labour party member I can only hope both enjoy success in this regard; or frankly either; it's the same goal! So every single person who supports Labour can surely agree to getting on board with that.

[NotDavidTennant]

I think you're a bit deluded if you believe a bitter leadership contest will make Labour more popular across the country. And it will be bitter - maybe not between the candidates themselves but between their supporters.

[eatsleephockeyrepeat]

Because by hook or by crook things will be very different in October!

For one Labour will have a leader. For two, two different highly motivated Labour campaigns will have been touring the country between now and then, spreading the Labour message to anyone who'll listen, essentially giving any Labour candidate a headstart on GE campaigning! Plus May's shiny newness will be wearing off and whoever wins out of Corbyn and Smith will be the shiny new one of the day. Doesn't seem like such a bad idea to capitalise to me!

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

*called as early as October.

Even Corbyn has said he wants one. Why an earth he would I have no idea.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

There could be a GE as early as October if May wanted to. If this trend continues she may very well seriously think about it.

Polls also generally also under estimate Tory performance so it could be a lot bigger.

[eatsleephockeyrepeat]

Ooh, ooh, can I join in! haven't read the whole thread but I love a good lot of poll statistics.

I agree with what you're saying about a straight swap howabout. I also think it's important to remember there literally can't be a GE right now whilst a leadership competition is underway, so how people feel right now whilst things are in flux is rather academic.

The fact is by the time they would even be theoretically able to vote the situation will be very different; Labour will have a leader one way or another and certainly some more water will have passed under the bridge. Either way there will be some form of resolution, so mulling over how people would vote today, whilst things are in the kind of turmoil that the political system respects would make it impossible to vote... well I think that's of limited use.

[howabout]

That poll is interesting piglet. It seems to indicate Bremainers are not in fact flocking to the Lib / Dems and UKIPers are unpersuaded that the main parties have got the message about Brexit meaning Brexit. Superficially it looks like a straight swap from Conservative to Labour. Severe voter disapproval for the PLP pushing self-destruct in sharp contrast to the Tories getting on with doing what the electorate told them to do?

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Here is a GE prediction that is apparently based on current polling if a snap GE.

Tories to have a near 200 seat majority.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Polls are getting worse......

[BrandNewAndImproved]

So the DPAC have just endorsed corbyn. Quite an important endorsement for him!

[howabout]

Last poll I saw had Conservative 37%, Labour 31%, UKIP 12% and Lib/Dem 6% (Guardian last week from memory)

Given what I said about UKIP and marginals if the LP can engage with the Brexit messages and win back support they will be ahead. A Brexit denying Leader has no hope of doing that. JC is the only viable electoral hope I see.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Thanks piglet. But many MPs don't like him but the people do isn't that splitting the party?

It isn't just MPs. The wider public don't either.

His approval rating is the worse of an leader ever.

In a GE he has to win over swing voters and Tory voters aswell as keep all current Labour voters.

Usually at this point the party in opposition is ahead in the polls. Labour is quite a bit behind currently.

If there was a snap GE Labour will lose many seats.

Labour isn't a 'social movement' it is a political party.

You can do nothing in opposition.

[Showmethewaytogohome]

I'm afraid the party will split anyway - and the sooner the better. There is no solution. Corbyn will more than likely be re-elected. But it could be really positive - a new party taking the best of the Labour party and moving it forward would be in opposition. Corbyn can lead his own party - where ever that takes him

[JohnBarleycorn]

Thanks piglet. But many MPs don't like him but the people do isn't that splitting the party?

And if he wins the next leadership vote will they then shut up and accept that the people want him or will they then continue to try and oust him?

[Showmethewaytogohome]

house Any abuse from anywhere should be stamped out. There is no organised 'anti-Corbyn' movement so it would be very difficult to assign the abuse to such. I fully support anyone carrying out any abuse at all on any person for any reason being being prosecuted and/or thrown out of the Labour Party if they are a member.

However, there is proof that active pro-Corbyn supporters such as Ken Livingston have made anti-semitic remarks (hence his suspension)

I actually think the party should split as soon as possible. Regroup with the 170 plus as the opposition. I am hoping this is already the plan. Then I will have no need to think about Corbyn ever again. He can have the tiny far left party he wants with all of his supporters but minus the privileges of being official opposition leader.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

But aren't they splitting the party by trying to oust the democratically elected leader?

The issue the have is he isn't leading them. If you have a look at the accounts of various MPs from various parts of the party they all give their experience of this.

They are under rules allowed a vote of no confidence and to challenge him which is what they have done.

He was part of the group that did the same to Kinnock so can't really complain.

[JohnBarleycorn]

I can't go through the whole thread and I daren't ask friends who want corbyn out (not that I've found many) but can someone answer my question? I hear non JC supporters saying he is splitting the party by refusing to step down. But aren't they splitting the party by trying to oust the democratically elected leader? I genuinely don't understand how stirring up sentiment against the leader and trying to find someone (anyone) else to lead isn't divisive.

[houseofpain]

Sorry - can't type properly and my last message got lost! rhea Wolfson has been the subject of a lot of online anti-Semitic abuse after announcing she was standing for the NEC and was the only Jewish candidate. I would argue that yes, in this context, the move to stop her was anti-Semitic even if driven by being anti-Corbyn (just as pro-Corbyn supporters can still be racist). I think there should be able to be criticism of JC - it would be unhealthy for there not to be but the double standard that functions re Corbyn is astounding and I think it needs to be challenged. There might not be a mass movement to unseat him but there is a whole raft of establishment media and figures lining up against him that it's not easy to hear what he or supporters are saying.

[Showmethewaytogohome]

Looking at the whole picture rather than 'one man' This will split the party. Is that what Corbynites want?

You may want to read this.

constitution-unit.com/2016/06/29/what-if-labour-splits/

[Showmethewaytogohome]

I haven't mentioned 'one woman'. Nope still don't get your point.

[Showmethewaytogohome]

house explain your point then because yes I have missed it. Nothing in those articles states she was blocked because she is Jewish. Nothing. Therefore my point regarding any candidate being black and being blocked stands.

I have no issues at all in anyone supporting Corbyn. My issue is that it seems if someone does they can see NO wrong at all in him or anyone who supports him That is not healthy. I could say I support Owen Smith for example but say I disagree with x y or z. That is healthy discourse

As I am in the minority in my stance within the LP and pro-Corbyn are in the majority I find it very puzzling that people take my stance so personally.

[howabout]

I completely get your point houseofpain and I completely agree.

[houseofpain]

And talk of 'one woman' doesn't help either. If this 'one woman' had been standing against Corbyn there would have been outrage and cries of anti-semitism over the incident.

[houseofpain]

You've missed my point regarding simplistic arguments but of course that doesn't matter because I have indicated I support Corbyn and my view doesn't matter. And yes - I think there is a selective idea of what anti-semitism looks like and an unwillingness to see this for what it is. I know who I would trust in terms of equality and inclusive politics and that is NOT people using my issues to denigrate the person I know who has consistently supported my rights.
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/158804/rhea-wolfson-blocked-attempt-win-seat-labour-nec-after-ken-livingstone’s-suspens
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/only-jewish-candidate-for-labours-ruling-nec-blocked-after-intervention-by-jim-murphy-blairites-a7059486.html

[Showmethewaytogohome]

Owen Jones has said he can not get an interview too - and he is hardly anti-Corbyn is he?