Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

[claig]

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

And the reason all the conservative press are against Corbyn and are right behind the 172 is because they fear Corbyn might win an election and that Corbyn cannot be controlled. If they thought Corbyn couldn't win, then they wouldn't back a coup to overthrow him.

But Corbyn has had nigh on a year to do that and his has signally failed to do so. John's first para is spot on. Most people don't dispute a lot of what JC says he is about. They dispute his ability to lead the party and lead the opposition. And they're pretty bloody important if your job is to do both those things. And he's prived himself to be as arrogant and as much of a hypocrite as any other politician, only those who have built this personality cult around him simply can't, or won't, see it. And that cult is dangerous.

To quote the great James Robertson Justice in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, 'had your chance, muffed it'. And JC's chance has been a lot longer than Mr Potts' was.

'The establishment' it appears is so many things. Is it the same as the 'elite' Who are the 'stooges' Claig? The 'rebels'? It is simplistic to suggest reining in the stooges will give us s new type of politics. The Labour party has to split - the cracks run from top to bottom and JC can not lead and doesn't want to fix it

Corbyn couldn't run a sweet shop (but doesn't mind using a sweatshop by all accounts) . Where is the money that momentum raises going to? No published accounts yet and no visibility

In my area from what I can see boundary changes will mean the Lib Dems could very well sweep in at the next election. A unified LP could have held it - but with the grass roots destroyed there is very little hope of that. The LP isn't just the MP's or Momentum there is a huge moderate membership that will either leave or will no longer actively work for any JC controlled party or could possibly leave and join the Lib Dems. The attack on the party is on all sides - JC will only fix it by stepping down - but he would rather destroy it. That is the kind of person you see as principled and visionary - mind you you think Nigel and Le Pen are amazing too

'Most people don't dispute a lot of what JC says he is about. They dispute his ability to lead the party and lead the opposition'

I agree because Corbyn and McDonnell are soft as jelly. The stooges should have been sacked a long time ago, not be able to waltz out of teh cabinet as they pleased and to have hatched a coup to remove him for months. Corbyn is weak, but so are all the rest of them. They all deal in spin and soundbites and don't address reality. Corbyn has had his head in the sand for months and now he faces this coup. All over the summer, the 172 will be writing letters about how Corbyn "bullies" them and he will not call them out. But in the end, even though Corbyn is weak as jelly, the people will prefer him to the 172 because he is not Establishment, unlike them.

Corbyn win an election - don't make me laugh - do you look at his ratings? I know labour party supporters who would rather vote tactically (lid dem or green) for the first time ever than let that happen

Oh and wait for the new Momentum candidates if they manage deselection for the next election- that will be fun- the dailyfail will have a freaking field day

'Corbyn win an election - don't make me laugh - do you look at his ratings? '

Corbyn was ahead of Cameron in May. The public are sick of seeing weak politicians like Corbyn not being able to control his stooges and spouting spin instead of challenging the stooges, that is why Corbyn's poll ratings have declined. But the public think even less of the 172. If Corbyn can control the party, then his popularity will increase if he starts coming up with different policies to Miliband;s old policies.

'the dailyfail will have a freaking field day'

So what? They had a field day over Miliband's bacon sarnie, but that isn't why people didn't vote for the Oxbridge MP. They didn't vote for him because he was useless and full of platitudes. If Corbyn manages to come up with real policies that are different, all the mockery of the Establishment and the 172, won't be able to stop him winning an election.

Claig understanding how our parliamentary system works may help you. Ignoring populist posturing politics that shout into the echo chambers of the already converted is essential.

We require an operating opposition. JC is unable to do this. If he wins the party will not function - there is nothing to say they have to support him. The reality is there will probably be a split. If not collectively to a new party or retaiingt the labour banner then many defections to other parties. What is your solution to this? Corbyn continues to stand on his soapbox and demand a loyalty he himself has never bothered to extend to any leader he has had - it won't happen will it

LazyCake - there is something worse than going on as we have been, far from ideal though it has been. And that is not going on at all.

If Corbyn wins, the Labour Party will be finished as an electoral force. Over a century of a left-wing opposition and sometimes government party at an end. Because it will split the party. And there will be no return from that.

Smith is no great shakes as a candidate, but equally, I don't think he's intended to be. He's standing because there needs to be someone to stand against Corbyn and none of the more serious candidates want to risk their political careers and worse, given the extreme bullying of those seen as opposing Corbyn. If he wins, they'll come forward.

If Corbyn goes, we have a hope of rescuing the left. If he stays, we don't. Expect lots of focus on gesture politics. And enjoy living in a one-party state. I don't want to tell my children that I was responsible for the fact there is no alternative to the Tories in Eng;land - except for UKIP.

Ignore claig btw - s/he's a UKIP supporter so of course Corbyn's success would be like a dream come true for him/her.

Claig

So how will he win an election - who will be his MP's. When the candidates are discredited how will that happen? When the vote is split how will that happen? When most voters are far more moderate than Corbyn how will that happen. Unless you are suggesting the RedUKIP approach?

Oh and btw I have met a number of momentum activists with Oxbridge degrees - fathom me that

'We require an operating opposition. JC is unable to do this'

Yes, he needs to do mandatory reselection because the parliamentary party is out of touch with the membership, and despite their protestations, is also out of touch with the public, which is why they have lost 2 elections.

As UKIP would then likely be the second party in England.

Again understanding the operations of our goevrning structures would help you

Mandatory reselection would not stop your 172 being MP's - it would mean that they could not stand under a Labour banner at the next election. If JC wins they will split anyway so it is moot

Where are your new candidates coming from? The middle class degree educated momentum members? Sure they are down with the peeps. I suspect Momentum is creating a war chest to set up their new party - Peoples front of Juddeah or some such - so you will have a new party (along with Arron Banks' new one or maybe it will be the same one!) to rave about very soon

Hells Bells! Let's lay down and die. Let's give up and drown ourselves in the short sighted masses.

'If Corbyn wins, the Labour Party will be finished as an electoral force. '

So why does Len McCluskey, a real leftwinger, not one of these Oxbridge Establishmentarians, back Corbyn and hope he overturns the trade union laws and brings in the end of university fees etc?

If Corbyn loses, it is the end of socialism as a force. For years, the Establishment has run Labour and now people are so fed up with it that they voted a 100-1 serial rebel and Stop the War socialist as leader ahead of all the Oxbridge/Harvard Establishment favourites. If Corbyn is overthrown, it is the end of socialism.

'Because it will split the party'

If it happens, the 172, together with Tim Farron, Paddy Ashdown and Blair will fade because they will be no different to Miliband. Then a real socialist alternative will be on offer, one that scraps tuition fees, ends austerity, builds hundreds of thousands of homes and protects our steel industry and nationalises rail.The people might just like it, they might think it is a breath of fresh air. That is what the Establishment and the conservative press are worried about.

As Kevim McKenna said

"Mr Corbyn is reviled by corporate Britain’s executive class and held in barely concealed contempt by the BBC in London. You can almost smell their fear and you begin to understand that they are out to stop him at all costs. Under no circumstances can an authentic Socialist, red in tooth and claw, be allowed access to the levers of power in the UK."

'So how will he win an election - who will be his MP's'

He needs mandatory reslection so we get a new set of faces, non-Establishment ones.

'When most voters are far more moderate than Corbyn how will that happen.'

What is extreme about Corbyn? That he wants to build homes, end austerity, stop the wars and help the poor? He is a socialist, what is extreme about that?

'Oh and btw I have met a number of momentum activists with Oxbridge degrees - fathom me that'

Yes, there are some real socialists who have Oxbridge degrees

'would not stop your 172 being MP's - it would mean that they could not stand under a Labour banner at the next election. If JC wins they will split anyway so it is moot'

People only vote for the 172 because they have the honour of being Labour candidates, not because they like Stephen Kinnock and his ideas about working with the progressive Davos business crowd. People probably prefer Len McCluskey to Stephen Kinnock.

If the 172 don't stand under a labour banner, they will lose their seats.

'Where are your new candidates coming from? The middle class degree educated momentum members? Sure they are down with the peeps.'

No one cares where they come from as long as they are socialists. Tony Benn was upper class, but he offered socialist solutions that many socialists liked.

So your generalisation about Oxbridge is incorrect? Ps LSE is where the real political and economic powerhouse really is - just sayin

Len? Don't make me chuckle again - half his own party doesn't support him. He is as much at risk through this as JC is.

Fear? Yes fear he will destroy any credible opposition to the Tories. Fear of him becoming PM? Not a chance. if you can't lead your own party, if you can not allow dissension even tho you have lived your own life like that you can not run a country.

Rhetoric politics from a man who has achieved nothing in his life apart from taking the coin from the electorate. These new candidates - will they come from momentum's current pool? Will they keep the intimidation and bullying or drop it a la UKIP style.

Thanks for giving me a laugh on a Sunday

Not party re Len - union

Give the people a real choice, no more Tory-lite Milibandism and Blairism, no more austery-lite, no more Establishment approved economic policies.

Owen Smith thinks the people are stupid as he says "I just can't wait to start talking about my 200 billion investment plan" as if Labour members are going to say, "crikey, Owen's good".. At least Corbyn keeps it real and is a real bona-fide socialist backed by the unions and by the largest membership of any party in Europe.

No if they don't stand under the Labour banner they could split the vote - they won't just slip away and say 'never mind fair cop' nor will the non corbyn activists

Membership and unions mean nothing - the electorate is what counts.

BTW what is a 'socialist' in your terms? Corbyn as I understand it owns a million pound plus house in Islington - is that OK? Is that socialist enough?

'No if they don't stand under the Labour banner they could split the vote'

Yes, they will split the vote. They will get 0.5% and the Corbynistas will get 99.5% as the people will reward Corbyn for having the stamina to stand up to the Establishment and the 172 for his beliefs and socialist conviction policies. Most people won't agree with Corbyn on everything, but they will agree with him on enough to trounce the 172 Party (Establishment approved).

Oh Claig you are funny - 95% of the vote. How about he changes everything ala Stalin style and we only have one candidate in total to vote for

Hate to tell you as I know others have pointed this out Corbyn IS part of the establishment

'Membership and unions mean nothing - the electorate is what counts.'

But the electorate are not Blairites and Kinnockites. Many of the Northern Labour heartlands voted for Brexit against the wishes of the Establishment and their Labour bigwigs.

The young and old Momentum members and Greens and socialists and Corbynistas are representative of a huge section of the public, along with the Brexit voting Northern heartlands that ex-Pfizer lobbyist, Oh-wen Smith, will put right off when he lectures them in his soft tones about how he knows what is best for them over EU and insults their intelligence by slowly articulating to them that "they were lied to" and taken in by the £350 million on the bus, and Oh-wen was clever enough not to be and will now explain to them what is in their best interests - to vote for him.

Just noticed Corbyn will get 99.5% of the vote for all of his candidates - wow that is sure impressive