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Politics

with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
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LastTango · 21/07/2014 13:12

I wish Israel didn't exist

And you'd like them to go........where ICanHearYou?

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sergeantmajor · 21/07/2014 13:16

Just a few things to correct here...

babbas - no, Jews have lived in Israel/Palestine continuously for thousands of years, including my grandfather who was born in there at the end of the 19th C. I have treasured photos of ancestral graves in Jerusalem going back further. They are not just post 2nd world war arrivals.

trufflesnout - yes, Israel won't give up until they are "wiped off the map by its enemies". I don't think anyone would choose to eliminate themselves a moment before they have to. Nice turn of phrase by the way.

ICanHearYou" and OP" - regarding the comparisons with the holocaust, I quote you Howard Jacobson: "it is to wound Jews in their recent and most anguished history and to punish them with their own grief... It is as though, by a reversal of the usual laws of cause and effect, Jewish actions of today prove that Jews had it coming to them yesterday."

BeCool - According to the Jordanians, Mashal, the head of Hamas, has a personal fortune of $2.6 Billion, mostly just from Gaza. 1,200 more Hamas personnel with personal fortunes of $1m or more. But keep going with the rich Jews thing if it makes you feel at home.

FloraBeeBaby - yes, there are few shelters for civilians in Gaza. There are many miles of shelters for weaponry however. This says a lot about the inhumanity of the Hamas government. Reality check - when have you ever heard of enemies being warned that an attack is imminent in order to evacuate innocents? The same civility is not afforded by Hamas to the Israeli civilians for sure.

ShineSmile - I am sure you remember Israel evacuating Gaza about 5 years ago, a full military withdrawal, uprooting Jewish settlers. The Hamas government chose to build a nation-sized rocket launch pad rather than a state. They store missiles beneath schools (see here from the UN) The Palestinians deserve better.

Please all be aware that Hamas publicly calls for the annihilation of Israel.

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JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 13:20

I wish Israel and its neighbours could live in peace. You wish it didn't exist.

Not much of a middle ground there, is there?

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 13:20

The Jews should have been given land in Europe, half of Germany even, that is where the atrocities happened and that is where the payback should have been

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MrsWedgeAntilles · 21/07/2014 13:30

To answer the Op's question - it fear.
Israel was founded to give the Jewish people a safe haven after the atrocities of WW2. I personally think the better solution to this would have been for post war governments to help integrate Jews into what every society they lived in, making them feel secure, equal and welcome wherever they were. Can you imagine how much better life would be now if there had been robust laws to protect all minorities put in place after the war?

Instead they set up Israel, which in my mind sends the message that the idea that the world powers believed the persecution of the Jews was going to continue and it was now up to the Israelis to defend themselves. I don't condone what the Israeli government are up to at all but it'll never be sorted unless the fear of the Israelis is taken into account.

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JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 13:31

Well, that didn't happen, did it. No one wanted that, but ho hum.

So you wish Israel didn't exist?

This is what it comes down to in the end, doesn't it? You are working towards the destruction of Israel, right?

And then you get angry with British people who feel uncomfortable with that.

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trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 13:31

It is a massive human rights issue and it is being done IN THE NAME OF JEWS!

In the name of Zionists.

I'll say again - it is a lot more complicated than "Israel are bad", you can get angry at Israel for defending themselves - but they aren't going to stop, they are hated. If they laid down arms and called for peace then by tomorrow they would be wiped out.

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Offler · 21/07/2014 13:33

I can understand why the Israel govt. acts the way it does, it doesn't make it right.

I can understand why the Palestinians leadership acts the way it does, it doesn't make it right.

The UN doesn't have the power to make them stop and talk, and it never will while the US tacitly supports Israel, as they have no reason to stop. And if Israel doesn't stop, neither will the Palestinians.

It's an almighty fuck-up that goes back thousands of years and I really don't know how it can be stopped. We can't change the past, it doesn't help anyone saying they did this, or they did that. It doesn't stop anyone dying. The past is the past, the future is what is important, a future that involves both Israel and a Palestinian homeland. The world just has to figure out how to achieve it.

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trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 13:33

Please all be aware that Hamas publicly calls for the annihilation of Israel.

^ This.

Israel (rather than say, Germany) was chosen because of the Jewish ties to the Holy Land and Jerusalem.

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 13:34

If they were just defending themselves I would have no issue.

They are not just defending themselves, they are keeping a population in a bubble where they restrict access to the rest of the world, where they 'repay' homemade rockets (that have NEVER KILLED ANYONE) with rockets that level tower blocks and they wonder why there is little sympathy!

Yes I wish Israel didn't exist, it is an enormous fuck up that makes the world (for all of us) less safe.

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trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 13:36

sergeantmajor used that turn of phrase, because well, it's true. A lot of people hold the opinion that if Israel laid down their arms they'd be wiped off the map by morning, but if Palestine put down their arms there'd be peace

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 13:37

"Do you take action or have a voice about anything going on in the world ever?"

Yes, I campaign for disability rights. I cannot be a one woman crusade and I resent being told that I should be doing more. I support a charity that provides aid to people like Palestinians who find themselves in the situations that they do.

What about you? Do you campaign for everything evil that goes on in the world?

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 13:39

I can only assume that people who think the IDF attacks on Gaza are due to Judaism cannot read or are just plain ignorant. I'm guessing the latter.

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AndHarry · 21/07/2014 13:42

Shameless signposting to the thread running in the In The News section:

Part 1

Part 2

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MTWTFSS · 21/07/2014 13:47

ICanHearYou

"where they 'repay' homemade rockets (that have NEVER KILLED ANYONE)"

This is not true!!! Their rockets have killed people!!!

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MTWTFSS · 21/07/2014 13:48

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

" As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people"

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MrsWedgeAntilles · 21/07/2014 13:50

No, I absolutely don't wish Israel didn't exist but I wish a different Israel, at peace with it neighbours and enjoying a good international standing did. As a solution to the problem of antisemitism and giving Jewish people security, which it was conceived for its not worked out very well and the Palestinian have been fucked over in the meantime.

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JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 13:52

I wonder if many people think like IcanHearyou i.e that they wish Israel didn't exist.
And they say Israel is paranoid.
Bizarre.

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MTWTFSS · 21/07/2014 13:52

Right now I am praying for a ceasefire that both sides comply with!

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 13:53

Okay so 28 Israelis have died because of rockets, most of them very recently.

How many Palestinians have been killed because of Israeli rockets? Does anyone even bother to count?

Thousands of CHILDREN die every year because of Israel.

Absolute psychos, then they wonder why those children that do survive, grow up and want to kill them!

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ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 13:55

I don't think Israel is paranoid. If I was a psychotic nation that took my school children on day trips to watch rockets fly into an adjoining city and spent my life keeping a demographic in severe oppression and killing women and children I would quite rightly feel like people were out to get me as well.

The point is not that Israel don't have enemies the point is that Israels actions give very good reason for people to hate them.

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MyFairyKing · 21/07/2014 14:00

The way some people behave with regards to this topic and people are surprised why so many of us do not want to engage.

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bakingnovice · 21/07/2014 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BeCool · 21/07/2014 14:11

But keep going with the rich Jews thing if it makes you feel at home.

I didn't mention rich Jews seargentmajor you did.
I've mentioned Israel being a wealthy state - and it is.

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BeCool · 21/07/2014 14:35

Palestine GDP per capita (2012)
$1924 (West Bank)
$876 (Gaza)
Unemployment 27.5%
Exports $720 million

Israel GDP per capita $35,833
Unemployment 5.8%
Exports $65.2billion

yes Israel is a wealthy state especially in comparison with Palestine.

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